Episode 407: Passion, Planning, and Success with Kelly Hoppen CBE
As business leaders seek the keys to scaling their efforts, they often overlook the potent mix of fear management, strategic planning, and passion. These three elements form the backbone of sustained business success, as experienced by global entrepreneur Kelly Hoppen.
In this episode, Adam Stott chats with the illustrious interior designer Kelly Hoppen about her journey from a fearless 16-year-old to a globally acclaimed business leader. Kelly talks about the highs and lows of her career, shedding light on how overcoming adversities has shaped her path in the design world.
Kelly emphasizes the importance of planning, perseverance, and continuous learning for business owners seeking growth and success.
Show Highlights:
- Kelly highlights the value of overcoming fear through positive energy and always gearing up with backup plans to tackle failures gracefully.
- Organizing diaries and being punctual can significantly enhance productivity, as emphasized by Kelly’s meticulous approach to scheduling.
- Embracing failure as a pathway to success, Kelly underscores learning lessons from each setback to improve and grow in your business journey.
- Cultivating a strong, inclusive company culture is essential, where everyone feels part of a collective mission—a core lesson Kelly shares.
- While acknowledging the joys of success, Kelly stresses that passion for your work should be the primary driver rather than solely focusing on monetary gains.
Links Mentioned:
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Watch the Episode on Adam’s YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/adamstottcoach?el=Pod
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Transcript:
Please note this is a verbatim transcription from the original audio and therefore may include some minor grammatical errors.
[00:00:00] Adam Stott: Hey everybody, Adam Stott here. Thanks for checking out my podcast, Business Growth Secrets. You’re absolutely in the right place. This podcast is going to reveal to you all of the secrets that you’ve been looking to discover. They’re going to allow you to cure your cashflow problems. Attain more clients, bring in more leads for your business, and create systems and processes that give you the growth that you want.
[00:00:30] You are going to discover the business growth secrets you have been looking for that I’ve used to sell over 50 million pounds worth of products and services on social media. and help clients everywhere to grow their businesses on demand. So let’s get started on the business growth secrets podcast. I want to give a huge, huge welcome to the stage.
[00:00:53] A former dragon from dragon’s den, a superstar interior designer based from South Africa. It’s made a massive, massive inroads to success in the UK. Can we give it up and give a standing round of applause to the one, the only Kelly Hoban. How are we doing?
[00:01:08] Kelly Hoppen: I’m good. I always feel like a little girl sitting on these seats, though.
[00:01:13] Adam Stott: Well, you know, super. As you said, as we were talking outside, we had a great podcast interview, and we really value the varied experience you’ve had in business and the success that you’ve created. So really pleased to bring you here. I wanted to bring you here for a long, long time. This is our Gold Circle group.
[00:01:32] They are our private clients. Absolutely amazing. They’re all businesses that are looking to, to grow, uh, looking to create the kind of success that you’ve been able to have in your businesses. And I wanted to come and introduce them to you. But today in terms of the interview, I wanted to start off and, and where did you start out from?
[00:01:54] How did you get to the point where you’ve conquered an industry, became a dragon and had some, uh, the amazing results you had in business?
[00:02:02] Kelly Hoppen: I mean, I started at 16 and a half. When I think of that now, it’s just ridiculous, isn’t it? Like, so young, but I was completely fearless and I’d lost my father and it kind of made me want to never rely on someone else.
[00:02:15] I had a passion. From a very early age about design and on weekends, my mom would say, what do you want to do? And I’d say, go and look at show flats. I mean, I was that weird. Um, but through a passion, I think you can grow something that doesn’t mean to say over the last 47 years, I haven’t had a million times.
[00:02:35] I’ve tripped up, felt despondent, felt like I couldn’t go on. How do I do it? But I think if you’re a born entrepreneur, You have an ability to navigate through things, and even today, today, Friday, last week, you’re still navigating, but it’s finding that way of navigating so that you don’t, Uh, do it through fear.
[00:03:03] You have to do it through an energy which is positive and always trying to think that what you’re trying to achieve is possible, but also knowing when it isn’t and being able to walk back and say, right, what’s the next. And you’ll know as an entrepreneur, when you have a thought of something that you want to do, and it doesn’t work out, uh, if say we’re doing a project and someone says, it’s actually, we don’t want to use you.
[00:03:27] We’ll use someone else. I literally don’t. Spend a millisecond thinking about that. I’ve already got four or five other things in my head that I’m going to go on for. And, you know, if I was to say, leave with one thing today, one takeaway. It’s about always having a stack of things that you can jump on to because I think I Listen to a lot of people and mentor a lot of people who say but I got really depressed because it didn’t work out So what go on to the next if you’ve got that kind of thought process You’ve always got a bit in the back.
[00:04:01] So you’re loading up ideas and thoughts, write them down, do mind maps, do things like that because you’ll always be able to achieve something. But don’t think that every great person you’ve read about or you have seen hasn’t gone through the same thing that you have. So it’s a process and obviously age gives you wisdom.
[00:04:20] But what I try and do with some of the young people that I mentor on Instagram and stuff, I say, I’m just trying to give you some tips of what you can do because you know what it’s like. I don’t know how many people have got kids, but you know, you can say to your children, really don’t call that guy back because it’s not going to work out.
[00:04:38] They’re never going to listen to you because they’re going to go through that experience because that’s what it’s like growing up. in your personal life. But business, I think, is different. You can be more strategic. So if you read books or you listen to people, take on board what they’re saying. Don’t try and do it your way because we’ve already gone and tripped up a million times.
[00:04:58] So it’s useful.
[00:05:00] Adam Stott: So learning from others and success, leaving clues, which is really important. Hey everyone. Hope you’re enjoying the podcast. We’ve got a free training that I’m doing right now online from the comfort of your own home called stand out brand. What this does is it shows business owners how to get noticed on social media, stand out, get more leads and get more sales.
[00:05:22] So if you want to make more money in your business, head over to adamstop. com Slash sob. That’s adam.com/sob and join us on the free three day workshop, standout brand. What I loved about what you just said there is you talked about fear and then you talked about a different energy. Now, where you’ve gone in your career and you’ve been uber successful.
[00:05:49] When you go back to the earlier stages of your career, how did you manage fear in the earlier stages? How did you cultivate? Because what you really talked about there is that strong mindset of being able to keep going through challenges. There’s lots of different business owners at different stages.
[00:06:06] Some of them at the early stages of their business. Let fear rule them.
[00:06:10] Kelly Hoppen: Did you ever have some times like that? Oh yeah, for sure I did. But you’ve got to remember, today is very different from when I did it. I’m very old now. And you know, you are living with social media, which is such an incredible tool, but it’s an evil tool.
[00:06:26] And you know, how many times have we all gone on social media and go, Oh, Oh, but look at that. It’s all, most of it’s not real, you know? So you’ve got to, I think today you’ve got to spend more time with it. then being on your laptops and your iPhones. I think that’s such a, um, you know, it’s like people that troll you when you’re, when you’re well known.
[00:06:49] And sometimes I’ll write back to them on Tik TOK or social media and go, what would your mother think? And they write back and they go, I’m so sorry. I didn’t mean it. So it’s like, It’s mommy’s boy. No, but it’s that simple. So don’t spend so much time consumed by what you see what other people are doing.
[00:07:08] Follow people and listen to audio books about people. There’s a great one with, um, what’s his name? Amazing voice. Um, actor mcconaughey, have you have anybody? Matthew mcconaughey? Yeah, it’s called green light. Yeah I can listen to that forever, you know, but they’re little snippets and it’s all about Listening to something or hearing something or meeting something and you come away from it Just thinking that one little snippet of something somebody’s doing the beginning of another mind map.
[00:07:38] You know, it’s about accumulating information, but feeling what’s right for you in building a business. This is all emotional and mental, but then you’ve got, how do you make money? You know, how do you succeed? How do you, everything is small steps in business. And one thing will lead to something else. But for me, it’s about, Actually being next to someone and talking to someone.
[00:08:03] I’m going on Monday to Dubai for five days. It’s jam packed with meetings, but I know I’ll come away with business because I’m there and I’m talking to people. You send someone an email, it gets lost in a stream of a hundred emails. There isn’t that personal touch that you can have with people. And I think that’s really key.
[00:08:22] Adam Stott: Uh, what I love about that is that it’s very synergistic to exactly what we talk about in the, you know, relationship capital, building relationships with people critical. But what I also love about it is the fact that every single person in this room, if they’ve just got around more people, they do more business, they do more deals, and as you said, would make more money.
[00:08:42] Um, now one of the things that you alluded to there as we were talking and we had a really good chat about it outside as well, is time management. One thing that I’ve. Noticed from spending time with interviewing, um, hanging out with and also following this logic myself and these rules myself is that running your diary and you just mentioned that in Dubai.
[00:09:05] You’ve mentioned it to me outside. It’s critically important. Could you? I’d love that to be a learning point for everyone in the room because many people don’t run their diary with that intensity or they don’t live their life with that habit. How important would that be in your success?
[00:09:23] Kelly Hoppen: My PA, if she was sitting here now, would literally be putting her hands in her, her head in her hands, because my diary is like a Rubik’s cube.
[00:09:32] And I think that’s how you should actually visualize your diary, because you start off with a plan, say at the beginning of a month, three months ahead, but it’s going to move. And I think that we should be more, more, um, adaptable to it, but if I say that I’m going to be somewhere at a certain time and I’m not going to be there, I am always half an hour early.
[00:09:54] Like, take that away with you. Always be early. Always be ready. Always have something in your pocket ready to go. And a diary is important. How
[00:10:03] Adam Stott: important
[00:10:03] Kelly Hoppen: is that, Kelly? Well, it’s the same way as bringing up children. They need to be fed at the same time every day. They need to have their nap at the same time.
[00:10:10] They need perimeters. We as adults running a business need perimeters. But we can set them. We don’t have a parent doing it for us anymore. And if you’re in a business where you employ people, Trust me, they need the perimeters as well. They need to know that they’re part of a, of a classroom of, of discussion, a classroom of, uh, working out that it works for you.
[00:10:33] So you can’t just put things in your diary and go, okay, two o’clock. I’ve got to be here. You’ve got to go on your Google and which I do and say, how long is it going to get me to get there? Then I’m the sort of person that thinks, Well, there’s definitely going to be a fire on the motorway, or there’s going to be a drama here.
[00:10:48] Like my husband always says to me, you’re always thinking the worst. And I’m like, I just want to be prepared. Um, so I think diaries are important. And I think when you look at your diary on a Sunday night, be prepared for it. You know, how am I, what am I going to wear to this? How am I going to be seen?
[00:11:06] What are we going to talk about? What have you got in your pocket that you can pull out the last minute? And I think everything is about preparation and being ready. But at the same time, um,
[00:11:17] Adam Stott: Have you been naturally like that? I’d just like to, is that something that you would say is natural for you? Is this something that you realized that you had to learn?
[00:11:24] Kelly Hoppen: No, I think my parents who both worked, uh, were like that. So I’ve been like that. I mean, you know, my husband, when we got together said that from the day he met me, He knew he’d have to be at an airport three and a half hours before a flight, regardless. And the few times that we’ve been on the motorway, when there’s been an accident, and I go, you see?
[00:11:44] And he goes, Kelly, this has happened twice in like 15 years, you know? So, but I like to be prepared and I’d rather waste time at an airport or waste time sitting before a meeting. And I can do emails, I can do other things. And it’s actually quite good to have a bit of time to stop. Yeah. Do you know what I mean?
[00:12:03] And think and, and rather than constantly on the go the whole time.
[00:12:08] Adam Stott: Love that. And actually I’ll pick up on the think part. When you talk about thinking and brain space, you’ve obviously gone and created a lot of success, you know, in interior design, being a dragon, being on Dragon’s Den. And how important is thinking?
[00:12:24] And how did you think about that opportunity? For example, you get an opportunity to go on Dragon’s Den, Where were you at with that? What made you decide to do it? Were you, were there times where you thought, I’m not going to do this? What was that like for you?
[00:12:36] Kelly Hoppen: So they called me and said, my agent called and said, they want to do dragons.
[00:12:39] And immediately I was like, whoa, amazing. And then I was like, shit, you know, I can’t do that. And literally right up until, no. And then they said, well, can you come and do a, A trial. And I thought I’m definitely going to fail. So you see, I went into it with fear because I didn’t think I was good enough to do that, to be on television.
[00:12:59] Well, you’re using your own money. I, I’m dyslexic. So there was no way that I would be able to do the figures like Debra could do. Well, I’ll tell you a funny story about that. And then, um, but then I did the trial and they said, you’re brilliant. We’ve got to have you to do it. So then I agreed to do it because everyone was like, you’ve got to do it.
[00:13:17] I knew Duncan. I knew Debra. I knew Peter. And they were like, listen, Kelly, it’s television. Yes. You’re using your own money, but it’s not live. So they’ll edit it. So you need to come up with one liner. So you get into the edit. And I said, look, I’m doing it to invest in young people. So there was one incident, I think on the first or second day, and I was like, so enamored by some young guy that had come in and I started to do the maths in my head.
[00:13:46] Big mistake and, um, I had got it so wrong, but I, I suddenly got this confidence on the, on the, you know, the filming and luckily Debra shot in because it’s all about competitiveness when you’re on the, the thing, you know, not in the green room, but when you’re filming and she then did the math. Thank God she did it, because mine was out by about 20 million or something, you know.
[00:14:11] I’d sort of forgotten a decimal point. But the point is that once I started doing it, that was one of my learning moments in life. You know, late in life, that actually you can do anything. It’s, but if you’re in fear, you start thinking of all the things that could go wrong when it’s about business. And that never works.
[00:14:30] Adam Stott: So you think about the things that go wrong, but you seem to be able to control your mentality. Yeah. As in, like, I think this and this and this is going to go wrong. Therefore,
[00:14:39] Kelly Hoppen: I’m going to
[00:14:40] Adam Stott: do this.
[00:14:40] Kelly Hoppen: So it’s all about the voices in your head. We all have them, right? all the time. And it’s about listening to those voices that you have now decided you’re going to listen to them, but you’re not really.
[00:14:52] So they’re there. You can never get rid of them, but then you’re going to have to have the louder voices. So this is about controlling what goes on in your head that allows you to really think about what you’re doing. Those other voices pop up from time to time, but you’re just going to squash them down, but you can never get rid of them.
[00:15:10] And it’s about training yourself to be prepared. And so when you prepare your diary, you’re also preparing your brain and the way you’re going to be, you know, it’s about like, I don’t know. When you are getting ready to do something, you might think the night before, what am I gonna wear? I want to be prepared.
[00:15:28] You lay your clothes out. It’s simple little things that you do. I know you’re laughing. No, no, I’m, it’s know why I’m laughing. It’s like a girly thing, you know?
[00:15:35] Adam Stott: It’s because it is simple, but it sounds natural to you. ’cause a lot of people it, how many of you don’t do that preparation now and then, if we were honest, raise your hands.
[00:15:45] Many in the room. You know, and I, and, and the reason I laugh is, is that. is, I don’t think it’s natural to everyone, but I think it’s so important.
[00:15:56] Kelly Hoppen: But then just write your notes. Like what is important? How do I achieve what I want to achieve this week? If you can’t do this month or just do the next three days, you know, certain things that I’ve learned is you can have a to do list that is so long, it will go all the way back to West London.
[00:16:12] But if you write that to do list, because it is important to write it down, but underline on a Monday morning that you’re going to do four of them. Just get four done, and that will give you the feeling of achieving something. Then the next day, you know, there’s nothing better for me, because I’m old school where I write lists and I cross them out.
[00:16:31] Ooh, it’s so good. But your whole life can be like that, you know, in terms of work. What do you, and you could have several lists, You know, I’ve sometimes got a to do list, but then I’ve got a to do do do do list, and another one, and another one, and they all kind of merge together. But it’s important, and then on a Friday, I’ll go through them all, and I’ll be doing this, and then I start another list.
[00:16:54] But it’s like having it tidy. Tidy, tidy desk, tidy brain, tidy life. Tidy work. I like
[00:17:01] Adam Stott: that. Right. Lovely. And you seem ultra focused from the podcast that we had from the time we spent together. You seem totally focused. How do you, because you must have, you’re on Dragon’s Den, right? So you get all these new opportunities that come in and you’re getting all these different opportunities, all these different things to focus on, but you’ve really stayed in your lane, haven’t you?
[00:17:25] Yeah. Yeah. Dominated that industry. How important is that to stay in your lane, not get distracted? I mean, it’s like number
[00:17:32] Kelly Hoppen: one rule, the amount of things that I’ve been asked to do in my career, whether it’s designing socks or shoes or clothes or whatever, but I’ve, you know, and there will be moments where your ego goes, Oh, fabulous.
[00:17:44] You know, and then you go, no. This is what I love, this is my passion, my mothership is designing beautiful homes and planes and boats and yachts and trains and God knows what else. And then I have all the other things which is the product, and occasionally I’ll swear it’s fear of to do something else, but it’s more of a passion project, because I know where my passion is.
[00:18:04] Bread is buttered. I know what I’m good at. I know where my focus needs to be. And to be focused all the time is, is hard, but I think if you’re organized going back to that and you’re, you know, eating well and, and not going crazy and going out and getting drunk every night and, you know, knowing when it’s time to have downtime and when to be, then I think that you have a, you have the ability to succeed and succeeding in life doesn’t have to be huge.
[00:18:34] It can be little bits of succeeding, which then becomes something that’s much bigger. And I think if you’re building something now and you’re really truly passionate about it, and you’re building it because of the right reasons, rather than doing it just because you want to make money. I think that’s really key.
[00:18:53] I love it. You know, I do what I do because I really love it. I’m not going to lie to you. I love making money, but that’s not the reason. No, but it’s who else does. Yeah. But I’m, I’m not lying. It’s like, I do love to make money and succeed, but it genuinely isn’t the thing that I think of when I go for that.
[00:19:15] When I see what I can make out of it, then I’m like, you, who that’s good. But it’s not, The moment I walk into it, that was not my thought process. And I think that’s really key.
[00:19:26] Adam Stott: And you’ve been in this particular industry design, um, for a long time. How important is the difference that you’ve just kept going in that industry?
[00:19:36] Do you think, you know, getting that, the end result, because you’re one of the most successful designers in the world, would you say? Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:42] Kelly Hoppen: Yeah, I know. But I think it’s really important because I see it very often with a lot of people where. they start something and then a lot of people have this thing where they stop doing something that could be successful for fear of failure, right?
[00:19:59] That is something I hear all the time. Never be frightened of failing. I have become more successful from failing and that is not a joke. You have to fail. How do you constitute? How does that? Because you just get up. Yeah. You just get up when
[00:20:16] Adam Stott: you say more successful because of the lessons you learn.
[00:20:18] Kelly Hoppen: Yes.
[00:20:19] Lessons you learn when you’re a parent. You learn things to bring up your second child better than you brought up your first child. Do you know what I mean? You do. Every time that you, uh, say you create, you start a new sport. Every time you fail at that, you learn a new trick. The next time you’re going to be better.
[00:20:38] So it’s all about a process in life. You, you know, because of instant, um, reality TV, you think people become famous. These kids that go on Love Island, suddenly they’re making two million pounds a year. That’s not reality. That’s just luck. That’s just, you know, because they’ve thrown into this, but then look at what happens to people that are thrown into it.
[00:20:59] Right. Okay. We’ve just all seen it in the press. So this is about building your steps to success and not beating yourself up. when it’s taking slightly longer. And if you get to a point where you think it’s just not working, re evaluate and re work out what you’re going to do because you can start again.
[00:21:19] You know, there isn’t a time, um, you know, where you can get to 50 and it’s all going to be over. I’m 65 and I’m still going. So, And there’s still new opportunities coming and still things that I’m excited about. I’m here today because I want to do this. You know, it’s like, it’s, it’s.
[00:21:38] Adam Stott: You said you really wanted to get a message across to, to the people here, um, was really important to you, wasn’t it?
[00:21:45] To get a message across around success, around habits and, and, and breaking through. And what I’d love to ask is, You know, having dominated an industry, being a dragon, um, many, many, many, many multi million pound businesses, uh, dealt with top, top people. In fact, I’ve got two questions that I want to ask.
[00:22:04] First question is, how do you deal with huge people that have created massive success, premium, premium clients? What would your advice be for someone sitting in the room to actually make an impact on premium clients? What would you say? Well, first of all,
[00:22:21] Kelly Hoppen: premium clients. It’s just the same as all of us.
[00:22:24] If you cut them, they bleed the same way. So, you know, it’s really important. Do you
[00:22:29] Adam Stott: cut?
[00:22:30] Kelly Hoppen: No, because it’s important. It’s like when, you know, I go and do talks in front of a thousand people, I just imagine they’re all naked, you know, while I’m doing it. So that I’m not like completely like, uh, no, because, you know, you, I mean, I’m kidding.
[00:22:44] But you know what I mean? It’s like, you know, you don’t want to be intimidated by people. And actually. Uh, if somebody’s well known in my business and I work for them, they’re, they’re exactly the same as anyone else because what I’m doing for them is creating a home, which is the most personal thing you could do for someone.
[00:23:00] So you, you have to get to know them very well. So all the guard comes down. So it makes absolutely no difference who anybody is. You know, I was brought up, you talk to anybody you meet in the same way as you, you want to be spoken to. That’s the same. Don’t change who you are because of someone standing in front of you.
[00:23:19] You respect them, you talk to them, you listen, you learn, and you say what’s real and be honest.
[00:23:25] Adam Stott: Which I think is a great bit of advice for everyone in the room for sure, you know, that mentality. And the second question I wanted to ask is, you know, you’ve been a small business, you’ve mentored many small businesses, helped them succeed.
[00:23:40] If you were to, From all the experience, I mean, I, I see through talking to you, from the conversations we’ve had previously, that you’re tough, you’re organized, you plan well, uh, take lots of action, you overcome fear, all of the traits that everyone in this room should be looking to adopt into what they do.
[00:24:02] Which sometimes is easier said than done, right? And as you say, it comes from experience. If you were to give you know, maybe three, three tips for what people could do in this room to generate more success in business, specifically in business, not so much in their life. Three tips. What would you say are some principles that have helped you?
[00:24:22] We might have already said a couple of them, but I’m just trying to see if there’s any, any specific actions or tips. I hate questions
[00:24:28] Kelly Hoppen: like that, but I’ll give it a go. Like one thing that I’ve learned recently from my own experience was working with a life coach. Um, to look at the company. And one of the things that he made me do was to go back to everyone in my company and write down what they thought the culture of our company was.
[00:24:46] And none of us understood what that meant. You know, it was really weird, but when everyone started writing back, we saw this a very similar thread throughout, which made me feel very good because it was the culture that I was I had hoped I had created over 47 years. And so if you’ve got a team of people and you’re working with a team of people to create a culture that works for everyone and this is inclusive and diverse, that is absolutely key.
[00:25:15] You should not separate yourself from the people you work with. So that was one. Another one is just don’t be fearful, you know, be polite. Not being fearful is not running into a room and bulldozing people down. It’s about having compassion. It’s about showing your vulnerability. Because you say I’m very strong, but I’m also very vulnerable.
[00:25:35] So it’s finding that balance in business of being vulnerable. But at the same time being strong and, and have a strength. So being strong is about showing strength rather than, you know, walking in and like bulldozing people down. And the other thing is that, you know, I’ve said it throughout this whole thing is really look at what you’re doing and what are the reasons you’re doing it for?
[00:25:59] Like, is it really the, are you so passionate? Cause I still wake up. Passionate about what I do. And so, maybe I’m lucky, I don’t know. But, you know, You know, there are some people in this world that have made billions of pounds by inventing the cat’s eyes on the road. And you think, why didn’t I do that? You know, that was a brilliant thing.
[00:26:21] But he must have been passionate about the technology of it and creating that. The passion is what drives you. I’ve just spent the weekend with my grandson who’s seven and I watch what his passions are. And they’re quite extraordinary. They’re extraordinary. But the difference of how he played and we were together because he was doing something he loved to doing something he didn’t, it’s that simple, you know?
[00:26:44] And so I think those three things are absolutely critical.
[00:26:48] Adam Stott: And I love that. I love the analogy or the metaphor of someone when you watch someone young, like my little boy, who’s like, The things that he loves doing, you know, the passion just to learn
[00:26:58] Kelly Hoppen: more and he’ll ask more and more questions because that’s, you know, never be afraid to ask the questions about doesn’t matter.
[00:27:06] It’s just learning how to use your voice. In the right way and stop listening to all those millions of voices in your head that are Potentially going to put you down, you know, it’s it’s hard enough out there that other people will do that So you have to really be strong in your own mind. Well, could
[00:27:25] Adam Stott: we give it up for kelly?
[00:27:25] She’s been amazing
[00:27:26] Kelly Hoppen: everyone Thank you
[00:27:30] Adam Stott: Hey everybody, Adam here, and I hope you loved today’s episode. I hope you thought it was fabulous. And if you did, I’d like to ask you a small favor. Could you jump over and go and give the podcast a review? Of course, I’ll be super grateful if that is a five star review.
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