The One Strategy That Built Two Global Empires – Jo Malone CBE

What’s the one thing about your business that can’t be copied? Jo Malone CBE built two global fragrance empires from a council estate upbringing and a tiny Chelsea kitchen, and in this episode, she reveals the single strategy behind both.

She coaches Adam and the room live on stage, extracts a story into a fragrance in real time, and breaks down the framework she’s used to build million-dollar brands.

Jo Malone CBE is the founder of two global beauty brands, Jo Malone London and Jo Loves, a pioneer of scent storytelling who started out as a skincare therapist with “not a penny to rub together,” and the creator of the world’s first fragrance paintbrush.

She explains:

• Why every great brand needs a “Five Eyes” compass: inspiration, innovation, ignition, integrity and instinct
• Why storytelling, not the product itself, is the thing competitors can never copy
• Why the second business is harder than the first, and how she turned a £2 million loss into a brand again

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Chapters

• 00:00:00 Intro
• 00:01:45 Take Us Back To The Beginning
• 00:02:07 A Childhood Built On Survival
• 00:02:43 The Artist, The Magician And The Poker Player
• 00:05:44 Starting From Scratch In A Chelsea Apartment
• 00:07:01 The Order That Changed Everything
• 00:08:20 Naming Products After The Ingredients
• 00:09:02 Creating The “Wow Moment”
• 00:11:18 Building Feeling Into A Brand
• 00:11:45 The Five Eyes Compass: Inspiration & Innovation
• 00:13:06 Why Ignition Matters
• 00:13:48 Integrity As A Non-Negotiable
• 00:14:55 Trusting Your Instinct And Gut
• 00:16:22 Why Dyslexia Is A Superpower
• 00:17:10 How Hard Times Build Business Muscle
• 00:18:02 The Second Brand: Where It Went Wrong
• 00:18:42 Losing £2 Million On Jo Loves
• 00:19:30 The Selfridges Launch That Dived
• 00:20:16 Refusing To Quit
• 00:21:43 “I Sold My Business, I Didn’t Sell Me”
• 00:23:22 What Makes A Brand World Class
• 00:24:10 Lessons From Chanel And Nike
• 00:25:36 Turning Your Customer Into The Artist
• 00:28:20 Creativity Needs Discipline
• 00:29:02 The Dubai Project & 1001 Arabian Nights
• 00:30:08 Creating A Fragrance From A Story, Live
• 00:33:00 The 1% Business Opportunity
• 00:34:21 Your Hidden Bank Account Of Creativity
• 00:35:01 Inventing The World’s First Fragrance Paintbrush
• 00:36:35 When The Whole Team Said “It Won’t Catch On”
• 00:39:03 Knowing It Was Going To Be Global
• 00:40:40 Why We Forget To Celebrate Success
• 00:41:34 Growing As A Founder
• 00:42:17 The High Court Battle Over Her Own Name
• 00:44:47 Why She’s Fighting For Education
• 00:48:02 Outro

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Transcript:

Please note this is a verbatim transcription from the original audio and therefore may include some minor grammatical errors.

00:00:00:16 – 00:00:11:09
What’s the one thing about your product or service that cannot be copied? I recently had Joe Malone CV to one of our Business Icons event.

00:00:11:09 – 00:00:23:01
I think nothing is wasted. This is my big thing in life. It doesn’t matter who we are, where we come from, where we’ve gone, where we’ve been, the good things, the bad, the ugly, nothing is wasted.

00:00:23:06 – 00:00:27:04
It was an outstanding interview full of world-class

00:00:27:04 – 00:00:35:19
business growth hacks and secrets. And one thing that was just amazing during this interview is she sat there and she started coaching me on branding.

00:00:35:19 – 00:00:43:13
She extracts a story out of me and showed how she would install that into a product. It was pure wizardry.

00:00:43:15 – 00:00:53:02
Tell me a happy moment in your life that made your heart beat so powerfully that you thought you would never experience such happiness again?

00:00:53:02 – 00:00:57:19
so now Adam’s given me his story. So now I become the storyteller

00:00:57:19 – 00:01:04:18
I think you can absolutely love this interview. I think you’re going to love it as much as I loved it when I actually was sitting there with her and I was in the room.

00:01:04:18 – 00:01:06:20
creativity needs discipline.

00:01:06:20 – 00:01:07:00
get.

00:01:07:01 – 00:01:11:09
You need you need a platform of discipline. If you don’t have that it’s often a hobby.

00:01:11:12 – 00:01:18:05
A lot of people, when they come to our business icons events, they love it because they get to meet global superstars and be around these incredible people.

00:01:18:05 – 00:01:32:08
And I think you’re going to love today’s episode with Joe Malone CBE. We’ll she’ll share with you how you can identify the things in your business that dominate your competitors because they can’t be copied.

00:01:32:10 – 00:01:45:03
I found it really, really inspiring, the journey that you’ve been through and, you know, the fact that you’ve started from scratch, I’ll let you I’ll let Andrew do your you might there. But I think it’d be really cool if you were to take us back to the beginning.

00:01:45:05 – 00:02:10:17
What’s the the real driver for you? What’s been driving your career? Where did it start? To give everybody a bit of context so they can get a good understanding of where where it all began? Well, that sounds better, doesn’t it? I think the drive in the beginning, I came from a a very sort of poor background, which is often how entrepreneurs start, you know, they come and I think mine was survival.

00:02:10:19 – 00:02:43:20
And I had to I had to survive from a very young age. I had two amazing parents, very creative. But I was the adult in our family from the age of 11, so it was up to me to put food on the table and to make sure Mum and Dad did the things they were meant to do. When I say that people, because when I say I grew up on a council estate and I’m traveling, people think it’s Downton Abbey and I was far from Downton Abbey, I can tell you.

00:02:43:22 – 00:03:02:24
Anyway, so I think that it was that survival. So my dad was a brilliant artist. He was an architect, he worked for English Heritage, he was a magician, and he was a huge poker player. So my job was to look after my father most of the time. So I would go to the markets with him and help sell his paintings.

00:03:02:24 – 00:03:24:22
I was the Debbie McGee. I was the magician’s assistant. Every Saturday when we would do kind of parties, and I had a pet dog called Suki. He used to sit on my shoulder. I know how people are sort in half so careful. That could come later. And I was also taught at the age of eight to read marked cards in a poker game.

00:03:24:22 – 00:03:45:15
So my father one every time. So you can see I didn’t have a necessary luxurious upbringing, but very, very creative. And this appreciation for being the entrepreneur and and being very creative in, in those kind of times. My mum was in the skincare industry.

00:03:45:18 – 00:04:06:17
So my my my upbringing was very eclectic, to say the least, but but very happy, you know, very happy. And I had two creative parents and, you know, that was my legacy when you mentioned the storytelling. So you said you you learned to essentially sell through storytelling. Was that based off of the magician?

00:04:06:18 – 00:04:26:06
Was that based off of where did that kind of where did that when did you first see the impact of that? Because I think a lot of people don’t learn that for a long time. Right. I think nothing is wasted. This is my big thing in life. It doesn’t matter who we are, where we come from, where we’ve gone, where we’ve been, the good things, the bad, the ugly, nothing is wasted.

00:04:26:06 – 00:04:45:21
And so for me as a child, the I think it was all of those things. I to this day in retail, I am the magician. I play poker every day. Not physically, but business is a bit like poker, you know, you have to play those cards that you’re dealt, and sometimes you have to bluff your way through, don’t you?

00:04:45:21 – 00:05:01:22
You have to sit there and think, okay, can you can you do this deal? Can you make 10,000? Yeah, I can, and you’re thinking in the back of your head. I don’t know how I’m going to do it, but I’m going to do it. The artist, I think, was the storyteller and my father and my mum, the love of beauty.

00:05:01:22 – 00:05:23:07
So between all of those things, and to this day, I still use all of them. They’re still very relevant to me and what I learned. So when we look at our backgrounds and we look at the jobs we’ve done and the families that we’ve come from, often the answers lie within that realm. So you don’t have to go halfway across the world and go find them.

00:05:23:07 – 00:05:44:03
They’re right sitting right next to you and that experience for sure. And when you went on this, this journey, so you’re the adult that you were. Thank you. Lots of mic changes here. We’ve got lots. So when you went on this journey and you built your first business, you you start from scratch, right? Start right from the beginning.

00:05:44:05 – 00:06:16:24
And it was really interesting, you know, reading the book and understand the story of what happened in the beginning. You want to give a bit of context about what it was like starting out in your business and what that was like and how you were feeling. Was this fear there? Well, I started off as a skincare therapist, and I would look after all the good and the elite, and I had I was must have been 21, 22 when I started and Gary and I, who’s my husband still my husband today and business partner, and he and I didn’t have a penny to rub together.

00:06:16:24 – 00:06:36:19
And we rented this tiny little apartment in Chelsea, which I still owned today because I, I can’t bear to be parted from it. It’s sort of got so many, and I think I’m going to turn it in to a little museum where I’ll do talks, where people can come and have a nice glass of wine and listen to a few stories and feel the energy of where I came from.

00:06:36:21 – 00:07:01:03
But it was I looked after 150 people. In that 150 became 300, then 1005 thousand. And what I would do is every time someone came to me to have their face done, I would give them a tiny little bottle of something like body lotion or bottle or something. And one lady one day said to me, Joe, this product is the most amazing product I have ever used in my life.

00:07:01:04 – 00:07:20:19
Can I buy 150 bottles? And that was how many recognized those stories and their own businesses. And that was the moment, isn’t it? That’s the moment where you go, wow, I’ve got to run now. Yeah, I got to jump and I got to run. Because if you don’t take advantage of those opportunities, sometimes they come again, sometimes they never come again.

00:07:20:20 – 00:07:24:20
And you have to live with the consequences of that.

00:07:24:22 – 00:07:31:20
I made 150 bottles in my little kitchen, which was probably no bigger than where we’re sitting

00:07:31:20 – 00:07:54:22
And so I was filling them by hand. And I think this woman thought there was some smart laboratory doing every. No. And I went to Raymond’s and had labels printed and everything filled the bottles, and it went off to a big party. And that was the point at which over 89% of people came back and said, can we buy some of?

00:07:55:01 – 00:08:20:15
And that’s where my business. So I didn’t start out. You know, being a creator, being a fragrance creator. I started out as a beautician, which I’m still very good at, by the way. But that fragrance creation, I suddenly started to see that I was running faster than all my competitors. And I had a difference and a point of view that no one else in that time was bringing to the marketplace.

00:08:20:16 – 00:08:49:06
I mean, Calvin Klein was creating fragrances called Escape and Free Pardon, C.K. one and stuff like C.K. one. Yeah, Tommy Hilfiger was doing kind of all these things, which were. And then I started a name product after the ingredients. No one had ever done that. So bizarre. And it was so simple, but it captured everybody’s imaginations. And what was it do you think I love, I love, I like all of the interests these.

00:08:49:07 – 00:09:02:18
So when you talk about actually the little gift, the little wow moment, you create like a wow moment for someone and give them that thing, I think that’s really awesome. What was your thought process behind that? Were you because you still got that you got going to that effort. You got to do that thing. What were you looking to do?

00:09:02:18 – 00:09:23:23
Is you just looking at how do I add more value? Where did that come from for you? I’ve got to be honest, in the beginning it was pay the rent. It was that survival instinct again. But it was I was enjoying what I was doing and I was finding at the end of the week there was a little pocket of money, and I didn’t have to worry so much the following month or the following month.

00:09:23:23 – 00:09:46:04
And so we started to see this business grow. Gary and I were still living in this apartment, and we were sleeping on a piece of blue foam on the floor that was our bed. And in the in the evening we would transform it into our bedroom, but in the morning I would pack everything away and it would be it was just like a shop and people would come.

00:09:46:04 – 00:10:17:19
We had everyone. I mean, we had all the record companies, all the film companies. And it was it was a real I didn’t know what every day was going to bring. And I, I kind of love that feeling. I love it even now. Entrepreneurship, isn’t it? Is that. Well, it’s just like every day is an adventure. But when you’re younger and you’ve had no experience, you you don’t feel the bumps, like when you jump and you and your grays, your knees, you don’t feel them, do you just bounce up when you get older, you feel them.

00:10:17:21 – 00:10:35:06
And but I think, you know, that was a part of my life where I learned to be the true Joe and the shopkeeper in terms of that product that you the first product that you got, what was great about it, you had all those people raving about it. What do you think? No one had ever done it before.

00:10:35:12 – 00:10:54:18
I was the first, you know, I was the first. I listened, I think always in everything I’ve done in my life, I’ve always listened to my gut and always gone with my gut. And I don’t create for marketing boards. I don’t create because of a brief. I create because I feel. And I still I still very much that person.

00:10:54:18 – 00:11:18:05
And I think to last as long as I have in this industry and to be to be loved in this industry is because I create from the heart. Yeah. So the feeling and this is what I think is really interesting, especially because known as a huge brand builder that you’ve you’ve built feelings into your brand. And I remember in the book there’s obviously a lot about that.

00:11:18:07 – 00:11:45:19
How when you can you explain that to everyone here, like what is building your feelings and being intentional with that in the brand? How do you describe that? I think, well, today, certainly when we look today, when I started, I’ve been in the industry for nearly 45 years. So I’ve seen I’ve seen kind of lots of movements come in and out, the brands that really stand out, not just in beauty but in fashion, are the ones that are full of integrity.

00:11:45:19 – 00:12:09:22
I’ve got a compass. Five eyes, very easy to remember. If you want to be successful and you want to be remembered, you need to build yourself a compass. So the first two are inspiration and innovation. Now, if you want to innovate and create something that has never been before, you can’t just sit there with a notepad and think, okay, I’m thinking, but nothing is coming.

00:12:09:22 – 00:12:34:05
You need inspiration. So inspiration is the oxygen. Where innovation lives. They sit side by side, their best friends. They don’t want to be separated. So if you start that whole process of finding inspiration, what inspires you? What do you love? Because if you don’t create businesses or products with that, everybody else will see through that plate glass window.

00:12:34:05 – 00:13:06:01
But when you put your heart and your soul, the next thing is ignition. It has to ignite. Does it ignite you when you see what you’ve created, that first candle or that first steering wheel for a racing car, or, I don’t know, 100 on the things. If you can’t feel that power, that passion, just like when you put a key into a racing car and you turn it and that that drum and that role of the engine, it’s it’s telling you, get ready, get ready.

00:13:06:01 – 00:13:29:12
This is a special moment. That ignition is so important. And not only have you got to feel it, you have to sell that ignition, that igniting moment to your team, to your suppliers, to your consumers, and that ignition. Once it starts to take hold, it goes like wildfire. It’s about being excited by what you’re creating. You feel like, is that how you describe?

00:13:29:13 – 00:13:48:20
Is that your your version of that? It’s like, I’m so passionate and excited about what I’ve created that everyone needs to hear about. Is that how you see it? You may be the only person in the room that believes it, so that’s why you need that igniting moment. The next one is integrity. People are looking for brands, right?

00:13:48:22 – 00:14:08:23
It’s specially Gen Z. Gen Alpha and Gen beta are going to be. I tell you, they’re going to be hot now to hell. And they’re going to ask questions that are uncomfortable. So we better be ready for that. But that integrity, you know, truth is truth. You don’t. I love the line from Judge Judy. She says. You don’t just answer the question.

00:14:08:23 – 00:14:32:04
You don’t have to think about it because the truth never changes. Interpretation of the truth is a different matter. But if you stand on Blurred Lines one day, those blurred lines start to straighten up and you look down at your feet and you’re standing the wrong side of that line. Integrity. So build your brands and your businesses with a really powerful part of your integrity.

00:14:32:04 – 00:14:55:03
And for me, I lay myself right open. And it’s when I create, I create with honesty. I create with truth, I sell with truth, I built with truth. And the last one is instinct gut. And that’s not as popular as it was in my in my day, your gut, like we used to do deals on a handshake. Can you imagine that today?

00:14:55:05 – 00:15:16:12
And we used to shake hands and whatever you agreed you would deliver. And part of me longs to go back to that world, but we would never go back to that world. But what integrity does is when when people an instinct. Sorry, your instinct and your gut. That is what people start to see and they start to trust you.

00:15:16:12 – 00:15:38:02
And now, I mean, I look at my life, the opportunities that I am being given are like off the scale. Some of it is because I know how to build billion dollar brands, and I do. But a lot of that is when we bring Joe on board, we know we have everything from her. She’s truthful. She’ll tell us if she doesn’t like something and she does.

00:15:38:03 – 00:15:56:00
And that has come from all those years of building those five eyes into every business I built, the business I have with Zara. We still have the Five Eyes and the other three businesses. The business of vodka. We have those five eyes. They don’t change. So if you want them, it’s my gift to you. You. You take them.

00:15:56:00 – 00:16:22:07
You take that compass. And actually training children, like all of our businesses that we have with our families, teach them those five eyes. They’ll serve them well as they go through school and go on to university. When you talk about the instincts, which I love that, by the way, when you talk about the instincts and the trust in the gut and how it’s not necessarily there that much anymore, I think we’ve like entrepreneurs.

00:16:22:11 – 00:16:45:03
That’s definitely something you, you know, when you know and how how do you interpret that. So you might maybe have a framework for for instincts or for gut instinct. How do you interpret that if you went a bit more into that? So I can sit in meetings and because of my dyslexia, I’m by the way, I don’t believe dyslexia or dyspraxia or any of those are disabilities.

00:16:45:04 – 00:17:10:05
They’re the most powerful ability to think differently. And so my dyslexia, I’m able to think very, very differently. And I’m able to get to a destination faster than most people. And I trust my instinct and my gut. I spend a lot of time actually. I’m a real owner. I like being on my own. I like thinking, I like watching and figuring out kind of solutions, and I faced.

00:17:10:08 – 00:17:37:09
I think part of that instinct has come through hard times. I hate to tell you, but hard times are important because they teach us business muscle. They teach us to be warriors. And if everything went right in your business every single day, you would start to take it for granted. And then when those times come and you have that awful dip which happens to all of us, whether we’re successful or not, you don’t know what to do.

00:17:37:10 – 00:18:02:04
You’re caught. But if you have prepared yourself for that, and you have walked straight into the eye of the storm and found solutions, you have equipped yourself and your team. And just an illustration there. When I built my second brand, Joe loves. The team I chose was not great and I that was my call. I made the wrong decision.

00:18:02:07 – 00:18:22:23
Interesting because I find it interesting, because what you said to me at the back as well, because one of the things Joe said to me is, are people here on their first business or the second business? And I said, have we some that are on their second business, no doubt, but most a lot on their first business. But I thought it was an interesting question because of the behavior between a first business versus a second business like.

00:18:23:00 – 00:18:42:04
And this is kind of building into that, that instant. So how come when you built the team second time around, you didn’t get it right? I didn’t get the big team right. I didn’t get the products right. I lost 2 million pounds. I mean, I really went downhill. I don’t know the answer to that. I think it was a different time.

00:18:42:06 – 00:19:06:17
And I think part of me, I assumed it was my right to walk straight back into those footsteps. And it wasn’t it wasn’t. I had to start all over again. I had to go back. And for two years. So when we started Joe Love’s, I ran straight back into distribution. We opened with Selfridges and it was Christmas. And I remember that night building the Joe Love Story in Selfridges.

00:19:06:17 – 00:19:30:20
And as it was being built, I literally hated the way it looked and I had signed it off. It was me. And if you look online, you’ll see the beginning part of Joe Loves is not beautiful white boxes. It was this red terracotta. It was awful. And as the shop was going up, it was hard. There was nothing about me and it’s like, but I signed it off and I had to go through with that.

00:19:30:20 – 00:19:54:15
We had to open the next morning. We had four fragrances and it just dived. I could not get momentum. I couldn’t get it working. Gary kept saying to me, we should have waited. We should have waited. And it’s like, well, don’t tell me that now I know that. Why do people do that? Tell you the obvious. And we were £2 million down and it was every day I’d say, please, can I quit?

00:19:54:16 – 00:20:16:22
I’ve made a mistake. I thought so humiliated. And then something rose within me. And this has happened all the way through my life. The fights are that. Come on, Joe, you know you’re 15 years old. People told you a lazy and stupid. You’d never make anything of your life. You did. You built. Come on. You have to start believing that somewhere in this is a way through.

00:20:16:24 – 00:20:37:01
And Gary would say every week, one more week, one more week. And you know what happened? What always happens, it starts to turn. It starts to turn. And it may be just a tiny lift and a tiny lift and a tiny lift. And within 4 or 5 years, which was a long till, we opened our first shop in Elizabeth Street.

00:20:37:01 – 00:21:01:01
And once we turn the key in the lock, that was the minute where we had a brand again. And I can’t tell you the appreciation I have for any entrepreneur that builds not only one brand, but two, because the second is often much harder than the first. Because the first time you’re full of, you know, you don’t know what’s coming, so you just jump, don’t you?

00:21:01:05 – 00:21:23:24
The second time, you’re kind of very aware of all the things that need to be done. So you’re thinking on all kinds of different directions, but ultimately it’s the product. It was the product and my love for the industry. If I didn’t have that, I probably wouldn’t be sitting here now talking to you. I would be I’d probably be working with elephants in South Africa because I love conservation.

00:21:23:24 – 00:21:43:15
That’s probably what I would be doing now, talking to me or elephants in South Africa as an upgrade or not. I’m not sure what would be better another day, but yeah, I think those hard times really, it’s like, what do you who do you want to be, Joe? What do you want to do? Do you want to spend?

00:21:43:16 – 00:22:14:01
And I felt I was too young to give up, and I just because I sold my business for a lot, by the way, I sold my business. I didn’t sell me. I’m still Joe. But when I did sell, I. Everyone said, oh, she’ll be sitting on a beach. I did that for six weeks and was bored stiff because I’m I’m a working class girl, made good, and I want to work and I know I can build businesses, I can create jobs because politicians, they don’t create jobs.

00:22:14:02 – 00:22:36:18
It’s us. We create the opportunities, we create those. And I didn’t want to give up, and I felt I was too old to to take up something completely new. And I did think about it. I thought about directing films, building hotels, everything but everything with nothing like you up, did it? Not like you know it. Really. It was missing the ignition for you.

00:22:36:20 – 00:23:02:04
Yeah, it was that passion. And when I create fragrance, I come alive. Anything is possible for me. Anything. And it doesn’t matter how many closed doors and how many. I’ll find a ladder. I’ll go around the back door. I’ll build a tunnel I continually look for. If someone says no and I feel it’s a yes, it’s my responsibility to find door and open it.

00:23:02:04 – 00:23:22:20
And I think the last, 20, last ten years of my life I’ve dedicated to that. And I’m seeing phenomenal growth in what I’m doing. Yeah, I think I think that’s amazing, that tenacity for sure. When you talk about brands and I think obviously very well known for that. What do you you’ve got a lot of people in the room that do services.

00:23:22:20 – 00:23:41:00
You got a lot of people in the room that do products, different types. But what do you consider for you? What is a what is a great brand look like to you? What does it. What does it consist of? What takes a brand and separates it from a competitor to make it world class and something that can be world renowned.

00:23:41:02 – 00:24:10:06
It has emotions. It has a heartbeat. It has a voice, it has integrity. So I think the great and it has a story. And all of your your stories are so, so, so powerful. How you started with and cracks and all. It’s so powerful because what it does is every time you tell your story, someone else sits there and thinks, if they can do it, I can do it.

00:24:10:06 – 00:24:52:02
And that is contagious above and beyond. But I think what makes great brands, when I look at people like Chanel, Burberry, I look at her like, BMW, all of those great brands, they all have. They all started somewhere. They all started with something. And that that wonderful story and that heartbeat, even if they’re gone. I mean, Coco Chanel, I went to a dinner the other day in Bond Street, and I swear she walked through that room and I was sitting there, and I don’t know why I was there, by the way, but I loved every minute in the beautiful salon upstairs.

00:24:52:02 – 00:25:12:17
And the spirit of her was in everything. It was in the food, it was in the colors. And I was looking around and I was thinking, she’s going to walk through the door in a minute, because the integrity of that and the voice is so powerful and so strong, and it’s one of those brands that really speaks to me in a very powerful way.

00:25:12:18 – 00:25:36:16
Nike Nike is another kind of big brand, but when you take it back right to the bones of where they started, just do it. That’s, that’s it’s just a saying. But that tick and when you put on a pair of their shoes, you believe you can do it. So when you wear one of my fragrances, you’re not the consumer, you’re the artist.

00:25:36:17 – 00:26:07:07
You you come with me in a collaboration because you’ve bought something that I have created, and I will teach you to be the artist, not just the consumer. So it’s finding that that really special moment where you connect with people and they’re drawn into your world. You don’t walk into theirs, you draw them into your world. You know, songwriters, a really great movie makers are amazing the way they do that.

00:26:07:07 – 00:26:33:15
But we can do that too. That is our world. That is our creativity, a power of our storytelling. And when we do that, those are the brands that go for generations. And they although their story twists and turns, its heartbeat stays the same, full of integrity, full of truth, and full of emotion. People want to really touch brands at the moment, and they want them as part of their life.

00:26:33:15 – 00:26:54:24
If they wear a shirt and whatever, it’s got to give them more than just just a one kind of one touch moment. It’s got to tell the story. It’s got to be more than that. And I think when we’re looking at the next generations, I’ve learned a lot from Gen Z and Gen Alpha, and I’ve gone across the world and I teach in schools and everything.

00:26:54:24 – 00:27:22:07
That’s what they’re saying. Who are you really, Joe? What are you really? Who are you? Where does that product really come from? Sustainability. Eco friendly. All of these questions and why we didn’t ask them before is beyond me, but they have really challenged me to really look at the core of what being a brand and a brand owner really means, and how you take all of that into the creation, which I love.

00:27:22:08 – 00:27:41:10
I mean, I usual talking about there’s certain things that come to mind. There’s a fragrance I bought the other day, actually, this is just random, but the what you said very much links to me. I bought this fragrance the other day and what they’ve done, I probably know the fragrance. It’s. I can’t actually remember the pronunciation, but they now describe in what the moment is.

00:27:41:11 – 00:28:03:20
So like this fragrance is burning wood. And I don’t know if you know that brand, you know, it’s a mason or something like that with a K. Yeah, something like that. And it’s obviously this is burn. It smells like burning wood and tree leaves and you’re just like, okay. And it’s like, this smells like cocktail and cigars. And I think that when that gets across that you’re embracing that.

00:28:03:20 – 00:28:20:20
So that’s kind of where my mind goes as you describe it now from an emotional standpoint. What about from a logical standpoint when you go because you know all of that, you feel it and you’ve got the feeling for it. Do you have like a framework of how you build towards it? The storytelling, which I totally understand. Like I love that, but is there?

00:28:20:21 – 00:28:41:09
Do you have it in in a kind of a step way of your mind when you’re building it? It’s like, do this, then this, then this, then this, or is it more is totally creatively feeling orientated? Does that make sense? So create creativity needs discipline. Yeah. So yeah this is this is kind of that’s what we’re trying to get.

00:28:41:10 – 00:29:02:15
You need you need a platform of discipline. If you don’t have that it’s often a hobby. So you do have to have those things in your mind for me. And everybody creates very differently. So I’ve been working on a project now for for four years. I moved to Dubai five years ago, never coming. I’m never leaving there. I love it even now.

00:29:02:17 – 00:29:20:14
I love that place. I call it home. But I started working on a project and it’s based upon a book called 1001 Arabian Nights. So when I talk to you about inspiration, innovation, this is what I’m talking about. And my son was reading it in university and he sat there and he said, mum, you got to read this book.

00:29:20:15 – 00:29:42:10
This woman is so like you. And I said, oh darling, who’s that? And he said, Queen share as well. I mean, did I love him? And he said she is the greatest storyteller. And it got my mind thinking 1001 stories that kept her alive. What happens if and this is always this is the question, what if I could?

00:29:42:12 – 00:30:08:09
What happens if? What do I do next? And those are always the three questions I ask myself. What happens if I could create 101 notes accords? So that’s a single note. I can put them into a library, and you would be able to come to me and I would I would ask you a question. Tell me one, 1 in 1 sentence.

00:30:08:09 – 00:30:37:06
Tell me a happy moment in your life that made your heart beat so powerfully that you thought you would never experience such happiness again? Yeah. So when my little boy was born, for example. Yeah. Okay. And Harold, is he now 11, 11? And what what are the things he loves to do? Oh, some ninja warrior he loves like, he loves to go and play and be active and do things like that.

00:30:37:07 – 00:31:08:03
You know, was born in the UK. Yeah. In the country of the town. Chelmsford in Chelmsford. Is that the country? That’s the town. That’s not the road. Okay. Yeah. So I so now Adam’s given me his story. So now I become the storyteller and I pick up and what I would do, I would have, I would probably start with a pomelo or a lime, because citrus notes always represent family to me, because they’ve always got their arms open to encourage others to come into the party.

00:31:08:04 – 00:31:32:17
So I would start with something like a grapefruit and a pomelo. I then take a like a cobalt. So I’m thinking as I’m, as I’m talking because I haven’t asked you that question. So, so I’m, I’m creating. Am I thinking in my head. So I would take it’s funny, I can see, I can see green grass and tiny little like white snowdrops and bluebells.

00:31:32:17 – 00:31:52:02
So I would take a bluebell forest up across the road from me. We go to all the time. Pardon. We’ve got a bluebell forest that we go to all the time actually that, that instinct, that gut when you start to use it. So I, so I’m just seeing tiny little white snowdrops and bluebells and I can smell a slight sort of really.

00:31:52:04 – 00:32:16:15
And grassy like it’s rained, I can see these big, big beautiful trees. And then there is a, there’s a slight mocha, like an espresso coffee. Yeah. Because it’s stressful. I need the caffeine. So, so what I’m able to do is recreate those stories. And if I had my fragrances here, I would physically do it for you. And it causes such wonder in people’s.

00:32:16:17 – 00:32:40:02
And that’s amazing. That’s actually is amazing. Give it up. That was incredible actually. Yeah. It’s such a natural. That’s lovely. But that that creativity. I do you know, I mean that was incredible. Obviously very talented. The bit that when you talked about the questions like the, the what, the what, what I loved even before that was you’re asking questions that allow your mind to be creative by saying, well, what if I could do this?

00:32:40:05 – 00:32:59:12
What if I could do that and that imagination and you all like, I think that’s a great thing for an entrepreneur, because a lot of people don’t ask those questions. They go. What if what if you don’t work? But rather than actually, well, what if it did? What could it be? I’m happy that when I jump on the plane at the weekend, I’ll do you ten questions and send them back to you.

00:32:59:12 – 00:33:29:06
For everybody of the things, the questions I ask myself. So what if I could today? And what if I could take one step towards my dream today? And this is called the 1% business opportunity. So often in businesses, when we’re growing them, we look at the big, big goals. That’s important. Always have your big goal and think, but the way you’ll get to that big goal is taking 1% of that journey every single day.

00:33:29:08 – 00:33:52:13
You promise yourself 1% of that journey I will take today, and it might be a phone call. It might be it can be anything towards it. And I often have in my in my businesses that I’ve built, I always look towards the end goal. Where do I want to go to? Okay, now I’ve just got to look down and take one step, one step, one step.

00:33:52:14 – 00:34:21:02
What happens? You suddenly look back and you’re halfway there. But if all you do is keep building towards that big one, the journey becomes a very, very different journey. And it’s up to you. It’s up to you to fulfill your dreams. It’s nobody else’s responsibility. It’s up to you. But all of you have a bank account, and some of you may realize there’s some of you may not, but the bank account is has always been there in your life.

00:34:21:02 – 00:34:49:14
From the minute you’ve been born. It doesn’t hold a currency that we recognize, but it holds the currency of creativity and it’s yours. But the only time that will go up in value is if you use it. You have to invest in creativity, not with money, but with time, with emotions. Be inquisitive. Find that and that creativity. Once you start to invest in creativity, amazing things happen, not just with your business.

00:34:49:16 – 00:35:01:13
You will look at problem solving in such a different way. It suddenly becomes a challenge. And so the things that you worry about and whatever, your brain starts to think differently.

00:35:01:13 – 00:35:21:22
So this is the world’s first. It was anyway, world’s first fragrance paintbrush. And when I created, I came up with this idea and my husband had said to me, Joe, I want you once in your life to create something that the world a paradigm shift. So the way the world thinks about something differently.

00:35:21:22 – 00:35:44:17
And I was thinking, what, you know, I thought for a long time in a logical fashion, the minute I switch off logical and I went into imagination, it came and I thought of my father, the artist, and I thought, I wonder if what if I could, instead of getting people to spray themselves.

00:35:44:19 – 00:36:07:22
Can’t get it off that what happens if I could get them to look at their body as though it was a plain canvas? Take their paint brushes, which has a cartridge in it, and paint their body with a fragrance every day to remind themselves who they want to be. And we started this four years ago. This was the moment at which my business changed.

00:36:07:22 – 00:36:34:24
It was, we call it the Willy Wonka Golden Ticket because it transformed. And actually now when you look at places like China Forest, Middle East, the paintbrush has become the way that we are looking at creating fragrance. But when I look at the idea, it was it was a story from my dad. It wasn’t I didn’t go to uni, I didn’t have to walk across mountains to go find it was right next to me.

00:36:35:01 – 00:37:04:15
But that respect of creativity and kind of what we’re doing, by the way, when I presented that to my team at the time I walked in, I have to say it didn’t look as chic as this. The first prototype never does, but I gave them the idea and I just said, we are going to teach the world to be fragrance sent artists, and they all looked at me and the marketing director at the time when I was very nice, but it’s a big gimmick.

00:37:04:17 – 00:37:23:06
And they all agreed with her and just said, you know what, Joe? It won’t catch on. It’s whatever. And I walked outside the room, had a little tear to myself, wipe my tears, pulled myself together, walk back in, and I went, we’re launching it, and we’re launching it in six months. Good. Yeah, but you know what the problem is?

00:37:23:06 – 00:37:43:06
How many dreams are killed in a moment of somebody who’s had that, whether somebody had a negative opinion about what they want to do, how many, how many dreams are killed in that moment and the fact that, yeah, you can have take it in, but I suppose that’s an instinct coming back. It’s that, well, they all found jobs elsewhere, by the way.

00:37:43:08 – 00:37:47:03
Yeah. Even better.

00:37:47:05 – 00:38:09:16
But sometimes you know what? You do have to listen to them. You do have to listen to that. You know that other side because you can learn. And I think it’s great when you have young people from uni coming in because they’re not predisposed with keeping everyone happy, and they come right out with it, don’t they? So sometimes, but if you have a belief in something, it’s up to you to prove it.

00:38:09:16 – 00:38:27:16
And I look at that every day and I just think, you know what, Joe? Go with your ideas. And now whenever I have an idea, everyone goes, oh yes, yes. And we have to, you know, sometimes I have to say, well, you know, it’s only black cats in the room. Do we do we should we think about it in a different way.

00:38:27:16 – 00:38:44:07
But I normally have got such a clear vision of where we’re going with it. And I like doing things different. I like to be the first in the world to do something. And again, it come back to that storytelling of how you sell it. You know, you actually get very visual and, you know, using that imagination to do that.

00:38:44:08 – 00:39:03:10
And, and obviously when you, you went on this journey and you’ve got your obviously you’ve built multiple businesses now, but even when you go back to the beginning, was there a time where obviously you did this first part, you sold this, when did it feel like this is going to be massive? Did you have a moment where it was like, this is going to be huge, like, this is going to be global?

00:39:03:15 – 00:39:28:01
Or was it very just the 1% progressive? What was that like? I think that was I knew when I created that and I went to China and I knew that I had turned a really big corner. And it’s it’s like riding horses sometimes, you know, when you’re trying to get on a horse and a horse’s moving and you’re trying to get up, it’s just like, just get it, get in the saddle and hold on, because he’s going to run.

00:39:28:01 – 00:39:55:06
And I think, you know, that part of building Joe loves the paintbrush. I think with my project with Zara now, I’ve been going with Zara for seven years now. Every year I think they’re going to go, thank you. Bye. And we carry on. That was that’s blown my mind completely apart. The power of the sorry. That was my tummy.

00:39:55:08 – 00:40:20:16
The power of creating something. And people identify the person Joe. I mean that has been a very, very powerful kind of moment for me. But sometimes when you’re building, you look up now and again, don’t you? But you’ve got your head down. And when you’re a one man band, you know, you’re the marketing of the PR, you’re the creator, you’re the sales person.

00:40:20:18 – 00:40:40:06
You know, you have to do all your own tax things. So you’re being all things to all men. And as you grow, you suddenly look up and you take a breath and you think, oh my goodness, we’ve come such a long way. What I would say, Pat yourself on the back, go and pour yourself a glass of wine and say, I did this, I did it.

00:40:40:08 – 00:41:08:11
I don’t do that right. We did actually mention and don’t do it right. And and also as a, as a founder of a brand, you know what? We celebrate the success. We’ve got a leadership team meeting today. I have to tell you this is so funny. So I have the most wonderful lady called Michelle who is our managing director, and she took over the running of the company about 18 months ago and transformed it.

00:41:08:11 – 00:41:34:18
And sometimes we have to do that as entrepreneurs because we can see the bigger goal. And that’s where we’re trying to get to and what what they need to do is trust and respect you and know that they’re safe. They’re not going to be made to look a fool at all. But we will celebrate those successes. And I think celebration is something that we do leave out in business a lot, definitely 100%.

00:41:34:19 – 00:41:48:23
And how much do you feel that you have to grow? How much have you had to grow as an individual to be able to build global brands and then do it again and just go on this journey? What have you? How much have you had to develop yourself, invest in yourself and grow? What’s that been like for you?

00:41:49:00 – 00:42:17:06
I feel I’m still Joe. I feel I’m still the girl that’s trying to make good. When I moved to Dubai, I’ve always felt I was meant for something really big in this world. I know I’ve achieved a lot. It’s. I know I’ve done that. But I meant to do something that is a real legacy, and I have a feeling it’s probably with education for children, and I’m working on all kinds of projects, but I still feel the personal, I still feel I’m a woman, I’m 60 years old.

00:42:17:06 – 00:42:47:22
I’ve got so many dreams to live, and I’ll share this with you. But I’m sure you’re all aware of the situation I found myself in with the Lauder Corporation at the moment. So they’ve taken me to the High Court because I’ve used my name. As Joe Malone said, the person that is challenging me. And but I have this real calmness that maybe this is the big moment, maybe this is the moment the law has to change.

00:42:47:23 – 00:42:58:22
And I am part of that journey. So I’m kind of I’m a part of my life where I’m growing, I’m creating like I’ve never created before.

00:42:58:24 – 00:43:17:17
And I’m going to have to fight this. You know, I’m not I can’t walk away from this one or sort of, I’m going to have to fight and fight for the right to be Joe Malone, the person. And I’m determined that, you know, we’re win. And and every business owner at some stage in life has got a fight and they’ve got to go for it.

00:43:17:17 – 00:43:38:16
Right. And that’s the the way it is. Yeah. You got if you’ve got your evidence and you have all those things. So my, my defense will be public knowledge within one month and I think it will be very obvious. But I am an entrepreneur. I’m not I’m not. Somebody likes to destroy. I want to build. Yeah. And I would rather there was a peaceful solution, of course.

00:43:38:18 – 00:43:59:13
And maybe there will be. Maybe there will be. But what I’m. The reason I’m sharing that with you is, is, Number one, it’s the elephant in the room wherever I go at the moment. So it’s kind of much better, to be honest. And number two, we all go through tough times. You know, just because I’m successful, it doesn’t mean to say that you don’t go through challenging moments.

00:43:59:13 – 00:44:25:19
And actually what it does, what it’s really made me see is who is Joe? Who really is Joe, and who does she want to be in this last trilogy of her life? Because we go in trilogies and it’s I want to create, and if I want to create, I’m going to have to if I have to dig my own pathway with my own bare hands, I’ll have to do that because I am not going to walk away from doing what makes me a whole person.

00:44:25:20 – 00:44:29:18
Yeah, which is amazing. Give it up.

00:44:29:20 – 00:44:47:07
I’ve got one, one question for the audience, but I’ve got one other question which I just would like to ask. The last question is what draws you mentioned education for children there. Why do you what draws you to educate? Obviously I’ve run an education business and you know, that’s what I do. And I and I love it. And that’s that’s what lights me up.

00:44:47:08 – 00:45:04:07
You know, I’ve run other businesses of a car businesses about marketing businesses. I’ve had service in business, body shops, all that stuff over the years. But it’s just nothing like education. I love education, I love seeing people grow. And that for me is what you know, and you mentioned that. So I’d just like to ask like for you.

00:45:04:08 – 00:45:29:15
Why is that so important? Education and helping people in that way. It’s the key. It’s education. And because education empowers people and empowered people give themselves choice. So I believe we should be teaching entrepreneurial in schools. From the age of 5 to 11, I’ve been into Downing Street. I have to say I’ve given up on politicians and their promises.

00:45:29:15 – 00:45:48:20
So I’ll go out and I’ll fix it myself. So I go into schools a lot, share my story. They love all the painting. We’re working with a school in Dubai at the moment, where we have been the first school in the world to create the fragrance of happiness at school, and I taught the children. So there’s a thousand children.

00:45:48:20 – 00:46:05:13
We chose 12 super sniffers in the school who had a very good sense of smell. And they have created sniffers. They’re not teenagers, are they? There are no, not that sort to see if it’s.

00:46:05:15 – 00:46:24:01
No they’re not. But but we’ve created the fragrance and they’ve created it. They will create all their own labels. There will be 1000 bottles made for the whole school. And they will identify this fragrance every time they sit and they do an exam, just a tiny little spray and they smell and it’s like, I can, I can do this.

00:46:24:01 – 00:46:48:17
So we’ve worked on that project. I’m working in the Middle East at the moment with educational programs because they we can see that the world, our children and our grandchildren are going to grow up into, they need that entrepreneurial spirit. And with that and that empowerment and that belief that you everyone has something amazing about them. A job in life is to find it.

00:46:48:17 – 00:47:12:22
You imagine mental health is going to go right down because we are we are giving to these children and saying, nobody is on this earth for not a purpose here. We are all here for one reason, and we have to find that reason. And we are going to quip you with a toolbox for life, that you can always go into your toolbox if you’re frightened or you’re afraid or whatever.

00:47:12:22 – 00:47:37:18
And creativity and imagination is is all the keys to open the toolbox. So we’re Katrina and I work incredibly hard, and I have to say, the leadership in the UAE have just grasped hold of this. And and let’s hope our. Yeah. Follow suit. That’s follow suit. Yeah. Because this doesn’t belong to anyone. This this should be a legacy for everyone.

00:47:37:20 – 00:47:41:06
Yeah I agree. Amazing. Give it up.

00:47:41:08 – 00:48:02:22
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00:48:02:22 – 00:48:24:11
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00:48:24:12 – 00:48:44:04
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