The Simple, Repeatable Business Model That Scales to Any Size – Sara Davies
Sara Davies built a multi-million-pound business selling handmade envelopes, survived six years of imposter syndrome in the Dragon’s Den chair, and still says the biggest bottleneck to growth was never cash, it was her own bandwidth. In this episode of the Business Growth Secrets podcast, she breaks down the simple, repeatable model that took Crafter’s Companion from a university side hustle to a £30 million turnover business.
Sara Davies is an award-winning entrepreneur, Dragon’s Den investor, and founder of Crafter’s Companion, the crafting brand she launched from her student bedroom and grew into a multi-million-pound company. She’s spent over 20 years selling live on shopping television, backed some of the Den’s biggest hits, and competed on Strictly Come Dancing.
She explains:
- Why the real limit on growth is never cash, it’s how much of you there is to go around
- The three traits, passion, vision and drive, that decide whether Sara Davies invests in thirty seconds
- Why hiring someone smarter than you is the single hire that changes everything
Download your FREE Start, Grow, Scale Roadmap in under 30 seconds: https://bit.ly/4prr8bL
Chapters
01:28:00 Mental Fitness And Energy Management
00:00:00 Intro
00:01:10 Sara’s 20 Years In Business
00:02:37 Growing Up In A Family Shop
00:04:22 Starting Crafter’s Companion At University
00:05:12 Spotting The Gap Nobody Else Saw
00:07:18 Pitching QVC And Selling Live On TV
00:11:05 The Buyer Who Doubted Her
00:13:04 Selling Out And Scaling Production
00:16:08 Learning To Sell In The Family Shop
00:17:22 The Body Language Rule That Changed Her Pitching
00:19:14 Why Setting The Tone Matters
00:22:04 Taking The Leap At 21
00:23:36 The Limits Of Hiring Friends And Family
00:24:56 The Hire That Changed Everything
00:28:47 Managing Ego As A Leader
00:30:11 Doubling Down On Your Strengths
00:31:23 The Website Lesson: Delegate, Don’t DIY
00:33:07 Cash Sales And Working Capital
00:34:16 How Maternity Leave Forced Her To Let Go
00:36:04 How Dragon’s Den Happened
00:39:06 Imposter Syndrome In The Den
00:47:06 Reframing Imposter Syndrome
00:50:04 Passion, Vision, Drive: What She Looks For
00:51:12 Why She Invests In People, Not Products
00:54:08 Her Favourite Investment Story
00:56:32 Mentoring Beyond The Cameras
00:59:22 Advice For Fearful First-Time Founders
01:01:36 Should You Quit Your Job To Start Up?
01:02:29 Surround Yourself With The Right People
01:04:22 Balancing Guilt, Family And Ambition
01:05:41 Her Husband’s Secret To Supporting Her Success
01:08:45 Advice For Scaling Past The Early Stage
01:10:27 Creating An Environment For Others To Succeed
01:11:51 Building A Business Around Values
01:12:54 The Danger Of Being The Only Energy Source
01:13:42 Ten Years Of Coaching
01:16:32 Why Consistency In Coaching Matters
01:17:58 Accountability And What Gets Measured Gets Done
01:26:17 Audience Q&A: Traits Of Extraordinary Leaders
Even More Value:
Download your FREE Start, Grow, Scale Roadmap in under 30 seconds: https://bit.ly/4prr8bL
Hear from Adam and some of the country’s biggest entrepreneurs on how to SCALE your Business past £1 Million: https://bit.ly/3S7fTIS
Learn how to build a 7 Figure SCALE plan that runs WITHOUT you: https://bit.ly/3Qq2ACO
Follow Adam Stott‘s Socials:
LinkedIn | Instagram | YouTube | Coaching
Please note this is a verbatim transcription from the original audio and therefore may include some minor grammatical errors.
There’s a huge difference between a business that grows and a business that scales, and in today’s episode of Business Growth Secrets, you’re gonna find out that exact difference. It’s not a job choice. It’s not a career choice. It’s a way of life. I’ve got the world-class, wonderful Dragon’s Den star, Sara Davies, with me on today’s podcast.
We talk about growing businesses, scaling businesses. We talk about the Den and so much more. If you’re sitting here and you’re not good at selling, go and learn to sell, because you’re not gonna have a successful business if you can’t sell. I know it’s gonna be an epic episode, and if you’re an ambitious business owner, you, in the future, wanna be in a room like this.
But for now, start listening to this world-class conversation about growing and scaling businesses.
And, obviously, many of you have seen you on TV many, many, many times, but where does it start for you, Sara, when you become a business owner? What’s your business journey been like? It’d be really good to hear a bit of the, a bit of the backstory so we can find out where it all begun. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people don’t realise, they see the, you know, while I’ve had a pr- public profile the last few year- well, the last, what, seven, seven years, uh, with Dragon’s Den, but it’s actually, I just celebrated my 20th year in business in October last year, and I started my business as a side hustle while I was at university.
Now, you know that age-old question people always say, are entrepreneurs born or made, right? I still don’t know the answer to that one. So both of my parents are entrepreneurs, so I guess I, you could say I’ve got the entrepreneurial gene, but I grew up in that environment. And you guys will get this, and it’s really hard to have this conversation with people who aren’t entrepreneurs, but being an entrepreneur, it’s not a job choice.
It’s not a career choice. It’s a way of life. And- Let’s be honest, not everyone’s cut out for the way of life that we live. It takes a lot of resilience, it takes a lot of sacrifice. But I think because I grew up in an environ- environment where me mam and dad… Oh, we say mam up north, that’s mum. For this, you’re gonna…
I’m not translating for you. I will ask you to speak right, right? Um, so my mam and dad, um, they ran the local wallpaper and paint shop in the village. And me da- me dad’s one of these barrel boys, done everything. From having a double glazing salesman job to buying bikes from the, the car boot sale on a Sunday and getting me grandma to sell them in the shed.
Like, me dad’s had a business doing everything. Um, but he set me mam and her mam up a, a little business, and it started off just in a, um, like an indoor market as it was back then, selling seconds wall- slight seconds wallpaper. And that morphed into, um, our family decorating store. So me mam and me nana had that.
And I can remember growing up always working in the shop and helping me mam and dad. And I just knew, like, if a decorator come and knocked on our door at 10 o’clock at night ’cause they needed a tin of paint mixing, ’cause they were off to a job at six o’clock in the morning, there was never a question.
Me mam just put her dressing gown and slippers on, went and opened the shop, and mixed the tin of paint. Egan, you’ll get that. And I think when you grow up living that life- Mm … you know, when I said to me mam and dad, “Well, I want to do this too,” I would never have dared utter the words, “I want to be an entrepreneur,” ’cause that’s a bloody big word for a young lass from a pit village in the North East.
You’re gonna get pecked on soon, right? But what I would say is, “I wanna run me own business. I wanna do me own thing.” And, and I knew what was involved because I’d seen me mam and dad go through that. And they never built a, a massive business. It was very much a lifestyle business, but they loved it and it gave us a, a brilliant life.
I was the kid at school who had Adidas Force track tractor bottoms, um, used to have the hand-me-down school bags, you know, from other… We didn’t have a lot of money, but they loved what they did. They were passionate about what they did. And me mam and her mam could always work the business, so one of them would work mornings, one would work afternoons.
So if me nana walked us to school, me mam would pick us up from school. And I, and I looked at that life and I thought, “I want that life. I want to build my own business so that I can give my family what my parents have given me.” And so I started Crafter’s Companion as a side hustle because, um- I went off to university to learn how business should be done so I could teach me dad how it was done in the 21st century, right?
That was the plan. Come back and show him how we do it these days, ’cause he’s proper old school, me dad,
right? And I did one of these degrees where you do a couple of years studying, and then you go off into the big wide world for a year, and you come back and do your last year of studying. And in that year, I worked for this tiny little craft company, right? And when I say craft, they were… The owner of the company, she was into making handmade cards, and she was a bit of an artist as she used to draw her own designs.
She’d built up a rubber stamp manufacturing plant, and we used to sell her hand-drawn designs as rubber stamps for people to stamp out using their cards. Well, I had no idea people did all this card-making as a massive hobby, or that it was a massive business as it was. And I went to work for her that year, and I was like, “Jesus, this is the industry I wanna be in.”
It, it felt like it was printing money, right? It really, it, it just felt like a license to print money. There was little craft shops opening up in every bloody village at the time. And I was like, “Right- loads of ideas. Now, I was just thinking I was gonna come and take over the family wallpaper and paint shop.
So I went to Glenda, who owned the company, and I was like, “Well, I’ve had all these ideas, Glenda. You could do this. You could do that. What about diversified here? What about expanding into that?” And she just looked at us like I had three heads and said- “Well, what would you know?” Like, in her eyes, she was the artist.
I was a management student. Well, how could I possibly tell her… I’d be able to tell her how to balance her books and build a marketing strategy, but I couldn’t tell her anything about craft, so she thought all me ideas were quite frankly shite, right? And they would never work. And the one big product I had an idea for was an envelope folding tool.
And me dad is an engineer, so me dad had worked out how to do it with this, and we’d applied for a patent on the side. And, and so I went to Glenda with me prototype and I was like, “I’ve invented this envelope folding tool. I’m going off to university for me last year. Why don’t you be the exclusive distributor?
You know, I’ll still work for you on the side. I’ve got the sales leads. You know, you can bring it to market, and I’ve just invented this product.” And I’d worked out I could make a, a quid profit on each one. Was like, “Yep, that’ll pay for me drinking money this last year at uni.” “And then I’ll see if that selling walkers will pay.”
That was the plan. Start selling walkers with paid again, you know, when I graduated. And she just laughed, and she said it was ridiculous and nobody would ever want… Why would you buy a tool to fold your own envelopes when you could buy them for 15p? Like, who would ever want to do that? So I just couldn’t get over that I thought this was a great idea.
What made you think it was a great idea? What was it that- The customers. Yeah. So I spent loads of time when I worked for Glenda going out and doing consumer shows. It was the best. Getting in front of the customers and demonstrating her products. She could never ge- bother to do it. I used to go out and demonstrate her products to make people want to buy them, and then I would ask them, “Well, what else are you looking for?
What other things do you do? What would you…” And then I, I felt like that’s how I spotted this opportunity. Mm. ‘Cause if you think about it, if you’ve spent a couple of hours, made a really nice handmade card, why would you stick it in a plain white envelope when you could take an extra two minutes and make a beautiful one in the same patterned paper that matches?
I could see the opportunity. She couldn’t. So I went to her biggest customer, after I finished my year, and I said, “I had this idea. Would you like to buy them directly off me?” And they were like, “Yeah, brilliant.” So I approached, it was the TV shopping channel, and they said I’d have to come on the shopping channel myself and sell it.
There’s a whole other story in and of itself. So I, I learned how to go and sell shit on the telly. And- … had to learn quite quickly. Yeah. And so I went down- We’re gonna need to visit that story, I think. Went down and, um, and sold… And, and I sold 8,000 on the first day. Whoa. What was that like? ‘Cause it, that does take guts and, and obviously I think, obviously pretty obvious you’re gutsy and, you know, for…
W- were you nervous? Were you fearful? So I, I must tell you this story ’cause it’s so funny, right? So I, I was in the green room. It was Ideal World. I mean, they’ve gone bust now as a shopping channel, but anybody who ever watched shopping telly, it, it basically the, the poor man’s QVC. Yeah. So all the suppliers that couldn’t get on at QVC-
would go to Ideal World, right? And they used to do craft once a week, and I’d pitched me idea, and they had a really big Today’s Special Value card-making kit. And I was gonna be the little upsell, five minutes. You could buy the envelope for and to make the matching envelope, right? And I was so nervous. Me husband had took the day off work, driven us down, had the day off uni, ’cause this was me last year at uni.
And I, I was in the green room and there was a woman I recognized, and I thought, “Oh, she must be, like, one of the buyers or something I’ve met,” ’cause I recognize her. And I’m chatting away to her, you know, and it’s… And she was ever so polite and lovely, but she didn’t seem to know much about crafting or whatever.
Um, and then, uh, she went off and I was getting ready. And, and then I looked over at the TV and she walks on the TV. It’s bloody Linda Lusardi. Was selling some Linda Lusardi slimming pills or something on it. And of course, I, I hadn’t realized, and it just hit me, the reality of being there. And I just… Well, there was a disabled toilet in the green room, and I just remember bringing up everything from the last 20-odd years.
Just vomiting, like, like you wouldn’t believe. ‘Cause it was the real… I was like, “I’m about to go live on telly. Live. Live.” “Then if I… What, what if me envelope doesn’t work?” Like- So… And you have to do everything back to front, or side to… with a hammer. Oh. Well, the thing is, as you’ll learn with me, I’m so bloody passionate about everything I do.
And you might just think it’s just making an envelope, but I know that if you were somebody who’s into making cards, it’s gonna change your life. Like- And I, I, I’m not just saying that. I believe it. Like, I real- I see crafters and how much they love being able to do that, the experience. And because I believe that, it oozes out of every pore of me body.
And so what happened was they’d, um… Oh, here is a bit of a long story, but it’s a good one. So- And there’s a good lesson to be learned in this for you. When I pitched the buyer, they were like, “That is brilliant. We’ll order 8,000.” And I was, I was like, “8,000? No way.” Right? I mean, you already know the punchline, so you know it’s got a happy ending.
We didn’t know this at this point, right? 8,000. So I trotted off. It was me dad’s best mate who owned a little joinery firm in the village. I had no way of paying him for these 8,000 envelops that he was making, but I promised him I’d write him the check, but he couldn’t cash it until the day after I got paid, and I’d get paid on 45 days.
So I wrote him a check not to cash it. How the hell he persuaded him to make 8,000 without me paying for them, I don’t know. But I have got the gift of the gab, so he made me 8,000 of them. And it got to the week before the show, and me dad went to deliver them to Peterborough for us, and, uh, it, it, he said, “I think you better ring them up and get, like, your purchase order reference number.”
So I rang up this buyer that I’d seen a few months ago, and I was like, “Oh, hi, Pam. Just need the purchase order number for the 8,000 envelops that I’ve made ’cause we’ve got to deliver them tomorrow.” “Oh, yeah, I was gonna talk to you about that, Sarah. We’ve had a bit of a review internally, and we’re not actually sure envelope making’s gonna be that big, so we’re not gonna go with the full 8,000.
We thought we’d order 1,500.” So, um, so then, so anyway, so I went down, and I remember Pam the buyer came in to see me before the first airing, and, uh, she said, “What, so what normally happens,” and those of you who work in TV shopping will know this, she said, “If it’s going really well, we might want to order more.”
And I went, “Right, right.” She said, “So have you got any more if we, if we sell out of the 1,500?” And I said, “Well, yeah, yeah. The, I’ve got another 6,500, love.” And she laughed at me and walked out. She just, she must have thought I was so bloody naive and stupid, right? Well, we came in to do the show, and it’s an hour-long show.
And they told me, basically they’re gonna focus on the main deal of the day for the, for 55 minutes. In the last five minutes of the show, they’ll come to me, I’ll make me envelope, and I’ll get me two minutes of fame, right? Anyway, the start of the show, they do a preview. Here are all the things coming up in the show, and they mention my enveloper.
And then, and I give them a little strapline. You know, you can make all these different size envelopes in two minutes or whatever. Then they did the first demonstration on the deal of the day, and then the floor manager came to me and said, “We’re coming to you early.” I was like, “Oh, okay.” So 20 minutes into the show they came to me, give me a little envelope.
Here we go, right? And off we went. 10 minutes later they came back. “We’re coming to you for another demo.” I said, “It’s just the same envelope.” And the, and I drew a slip like one. But it’s just the same envelopes, right? Says, “Well, we’re coming back for another demo.” Five envelopes I made that hour. Five envelopes, right?
And, and I could see Pam Kershaw, the, the buyer, was like flitting around in the background talking to Neil Spind off the back of the set and all this stuff getting signed. And, and I came up, and I said, um, I came out and I said to Simon, “What’s going on? Like, why, why was, why was Pam here?” And he said, “Oh, um, they’ve sold out.”
I went, “Brilliant. Tell her to buy the other 6,500.” He said, “No, no, she has.” I said, “Brilliant.” He said, “We’ve sold out.” We’d sold the 8,000 envelopers- Oh … on the launch. I, I love it. And, and, and I think people watching at home, it was just such a breath of fresh air, and it was a product that people needed. And trust me, even if you don’t make cards, you watch me for 10 minutes on QVC, I’ll convince you to need an enveloper.
And that’s- How, how did you feel- … such a good storyteller. Yeah … how did you feel when that happened? I was absolutely buzzing. I was absolutely buzzing. And then she was like, “Can we up the order to 15,000?” I was like, “Hell yes, you can, Ted.” He said, “We need them delivered in 24 hours.” I say, “Well, he can only make 1,000 a day.”
And so Tony ramped up production in Walton’s Windows, and they started to churn out envelopers 1,000 a day. By the Christmas, we’d sold 30,000 and he’s like- Wow … “Sarah, I just can’t cope. Like, I, I need to go back to making windows.” But the, the profit I’d made on each one, I’d, I’d already had it quoted to have it made in plastic.
And if I’d made it in plastic, instead of making a pound profit on each one, I was making about £2.50 on each one. I just didn’t have the 30 grand I needed to make the tool. So the first 30,000 envelopers… Well, actually it wasn’t quite 30. It was about 33, because other than the 2,000 envelopers, I used the profit to spend on me wedding dress.
And so I blew the budget on the wedding dress, and I remember just worrying how many envelopers I’d have to sell to pay for the extra. Um, but other than that, the first 30,000 envelopers paid for the money for the tooling to make it in plastic. And then by this point I’d had the idea for the next product.
Wow. But that was 100 grands worth of tooling. Mm. ‘Cause I didn’t know how to manufacture out in the Far East, so I was having to use local manufacturers and, you know, making tools in the UK was, 20 years ago, was expensive. So I just thought outside the box and thought of a different way to bring it to market.
And actually it was the best thing I ever did, because I knew nine standard size envelopes, an A6, an A5, a DL. Turns out crafters, we don’t make standard sized cards. We fold the card, and then if something goes wrong, we cut a bit off the bobble- … and off the sides. So they don’t wanna just do nine sizes. So actually, by the time I went from- Mm
the MDF one to the real one, we’d added a few more lines on, beefed out the instruction booklet. So that became the Enveloper Pro. And I sold them to the 30,000 people who’d already got the wooden one- Nice … as well as the next trench of people. So it’s always something to learn from these. It’s, you know, it’s always a learning curve.
The s- the sales aspect of that, the confidence, why do you think you sold so many? Do you think it was product? Do you think you knew the market? Do you think it was a passion, a combination, or, or what’s… You know, have you been trained in sales? Obviously you did a business degree, but- No. No. But I, well, I say no, but I remember when me and me sister were kids and we used to work in the wallpaper and paint shop, and we used to, we used to, like, dare each other and, and have, like, a challenge.
So we’d see somebody come in and we’d be like, um… And before they come in, they’d be looking around, and our Helen would go to us- Go and get that, uh, that one out the sale bargain, bargain basement out the back, take the stickers off. Bet you can’t knock six, you know, six rolls of that into bed and be like, “Watch this.”
Yes, sir. Thank you. No need, thank. Like, “Oh, I see you’re looking for today. Oh, front view. Oh, yes, south fa- south-facing. I can say I’ve got just the thing,” right? And so we would always challenge ourselves, ’cause it was our family business. I understood the margins on the products which we… We needed to sell that stuff to be able to put food on the table.
Mm. And I think when you grow up in that environment- Yeah … you learn to sell. Mm. And I can tell you now, if you’re sitting here and you’re not good at selling, go and learn to sell, ’cause you’re not gonna have a successful business if you can’t sell. And, and it, it, it’s out of sheer necessity. Yeah. And I think it’s learning how to sell, but then I’ve always been so passionate about what it is I’m doing.
Mm. And I learned to put my emotions into my, my voice and, and my body language and everything, and it’s just become second nature. I, I’ve done a lot on the shopping channels in Germany. Mm. I don’t speak German. So when I’m in Germany, there’s a little woman sits in a sound booth out the corner, right, who I have to pay 1,000 pound an hour to, to translate and lip sync as it comes out my mouth.
Very good skill she is, right? But what I found was those people at home aren’t hearing me. They’re getting the words that I’m saying, but they’re not getting my- Your tone … excitement. So I’ve learned to really build it into my body language. Yeah. So when I was on TV in Germany, I had to give you that excitement from my body language that I couldn’t give you from my intonation or my language.
And there’s a theory that I got taught in shop intel called Mehrabian’s theory. Brilliant theory, and, and the theory goes that only 7% of what someone hears are the physical words you say. Over 50% is the body language, 30 odd percent is the intonation, and 7% are the words. And I can tell you now, you will go home from this today and you won’t remember 90% of what I’ve talked about.
But you will remember how I’ve made you feel, and you’ll remember that I felt like I was passionate, I could do it, and that is contagious. Yeah. And if you can master that, it’s really hard for people to say no to you. I’ve built… I am the pitch woman in our business, most people find it bloody difficult to say no to me, and that’s a skill you gotta work on.
Love it. Right, love it. We… Um, we’ve, we’ve been talking a tremendous amount about webinars actually- Yeah … over the course of two days. Um, and this is a lot of the people that, that are in the room, they would’ve met us first of all on a webinar, which is very similar to shopping TV. I, I’ve got a caller, Anne, is a QVC saleswoman.
She wa- 20, was, 20 years? 26 years. 26 years, right. You know, it’s, it’s, uh, really cool, right? Um, it seems like we’ve had a lot of talk on that over the co- uh, over the past couple of days. But one of the things that I think that’s actually changed a lot of my webinar performance is what you just said, bringing excitement and setting the state of excitement as well.
Yeah. And actually telling people to be excited and getting them excited makes a huge, huge, huge difference. So it’s really cool to hear you say that, you know, that translates over to- Hang on, I’ll give you a brilliant example of that. We used to run a big craft retreat every year. We used to get 200, generally little old ladies, they would come up and they would, they would do craft classes with us all the time.
And one of my staff that works for us, she would always get what she’d call a crap class, right? Mm. And it was, it was on like on, on ink pad techniques, and it was never, it never seemed exciting, but it was stuff they really wanted to learn. So she used to spend the start of the class telling them how exciting it was- Yeah.
how useful it was, everything it was gonna be, like how much they were, you know, the card mate was gonna be so much better ’cause they did… She would just be there. And then all the way through the class, she keeps reminding them, “I know this seems a bit boring, but think how much better your cards…” And she kept the excitement, and then as she sent them out the room at the end, she’d remind them that this had been the best goddamn class they’d taken all, all weekend, and how much fun they’d got.
And you asked them at the end of the weekend, what was their favorite class? “Leanne’s class.” Leanne. Yeah. We’re all the teachers. We drew straws and we’re like, “Oh, she got the shit class.” But you, it’s just, it’s how you can make people feel. You can set that tone, whether it’s in a pitch, whether it’s in a meeting, whether you’re inspiring other staff, whether it’s with clients, whatever it is, you set that tone.
And if you’re flat and unexcited about it, same about coming in the door. You walk through them lift doors, and I know they’re nervous. Mm. I know it’s probably the biggest moment of their life, and I’ve got huge empathy for that, right? But if they are flat and dull and uninterested, and giving me parrot fashion what is that pitch, it just tells me that they don’t really feel it.
They’re just delivering it. And then I’m thinking, “Yeah, I don’t, I’m, I don’t wanna hang out with you. You’re not good.” It’s not for me. You might have a great business, you might have a great product, but actually I’m not gonna wanna spend time with you. Yeah. I’m never gonna win this. Yeah, I’ve, I’ve, you know, noted that from, from the things that you, you’re very go off the feeling and feeling of seeing the person, and is that someone that you can, can work with and do business with and, and really that’s something that’s really big for you.
Before we go there, ’cause I definitely wanna talk about Dragon’s Den, I’d love to hear the transition of building the business, because you started the business at 21. Yeah. Obviously you’ve got the background, which we, we, we… Amazing background, and then we start building this business. There’s a lot of people in this room that have got a lot.
They’re building businesses. They’re putting it on the line. They’ve got a lot going on. Some have got children, um, and they’re building a business. Some have got jobs they’ve been in for a long time, and they’re quitting their jobs, and they’re going out there and they’re making this happen and, you know, they’re stepping through fear and stepping through risk.
Um, it’d be really good to understand what’s your journey been like. Have there been some moments like that? Uh, I think you’ve definitely talked about one moment of courage- Yeah … where you took the step, you know. It’d be really cool to hear about how that business started to evolve from when you started it.
Absolutely. Yeah, I could stay all day and talk all day. Oh, my brother said two days. I probably could’ve talked for two days. So if I take myself back to that time There’s some things I did really right and some things I did really wrong. And I remember I was … It- the good thing for me is I was only 21. I didn’t have any dependents.
My husband had a decent job. Well, he was me boyfriend then. We just got engaged. Had a decent job, so he could make our mortgage payments. So actually, I worked out I could pay myself 1,000 pounds a month, and the business could afford to pay me that, and I could afford to live on that. So I took the minimum I could out the business, so it felt like no risk.
So I felt like I didn’t have to answer to anybody, and I wasn’t risking anything. And I appreciate that is a really lucky situation, and 95% of entrepreneurs- It’s still a created situation, isn’t it? But I suppose- Yeah … yes, I created that situation, but a lot of people don’t, don’t have that, you know. They start a business and they have to give up a, a full-time salary or, or whatever.
So I appreciate I was really lucky in, in when I came to set up. Um, but what I did is I just employed … Well, me first employee was me best friend’s mam, and then it was me other friend’s kid sister who couldn’t get a job and was covered to do some volunteering work for us a couple of days a week, and then just did more.
Um- … that was the second employee. Um, and, and so it was, uh, kind of I employed friends and family- Yeah … in the early years because it was people I trusted, you know. And that was … It was so critical to have the people that I trusted. And had I kept on on that front, I would only ever have got to a certain size.
That’s what I saw me mom and dad do with their business, you know. They built that business over, you know, the first 20-odd years, and built it up. And it was a great business, built to another four, 500 grands, uh, a year, and about 60 to 80 grand profit. So it was a brilliant lifestyle business for our family, but they could never break beyond that.
Yeah. But if I look back now, they always employed friends and people they could trust. But they are doers, not thinkers. So I did all the thinking, and I told them, and they executed. And that is, that is all them people did. And the turning point for me, I remember hiring a guy ’cause he was called James Brown.
And, uh, James Brown, he was one of my customer’s sons, and there’d been a problem with I’d, I’d, I’d de- CD-ROM crafting was huge at the time, and he was like a techy person, and there was a fault on me CD-ROMs, and I didn’t want to own up to there being a fault. So I just used to try and baffle talk these little old ladies into thinking it was just the way they were using the computer.
And I’d send them out to a replacement CD-ROM to see if that would fix it, right? And this one woman was having none of it. She’s like, “My son works in computer programming. He said this is a fault.” And I was like… So I ended up meeting her son through this, and he, he was just, he was a bit of a jack of all trade.
He could do all s- he could do video editing, he could build websites, he could do… He, he had all these skills that I didn’t have. And, and I became really friendly with him. He was doing a little bit of work for us on the side, and eventually I said, “What will it take to get you to move up here and join the company full time?”
That’s a beautiful question, by the way. I think that a lot of people don’t ask that question. That’s such a great question. And, and, and I asked him, and then what came out his mouth seemed exorbitant to me at the time. I think it was like a 45 grand salary, which is, does it feel about 20 years ago? That was probably the equivalent of like an 80, 90 grand salary now.
Uh, Jesus, I’m getting old. And he wanted a relocation package. He basically wanted to be able to move up here and wanted a setup whereby his wife, that he could earn enough money, his wife didn’t need to, need to work And he wanted to live in a nice detached house. That was his price of moving up. But I could see that he’s gonna make such a big difference ’cause he’s got all these skills I haven’t got.
Mm-hmm. And so I did it. The business could afford to hire him, but he was earning four times what I was, you know. And, and, and a lot of people, their ego won’t allow them to do that. Mm-hmm. You know, I was no longer the smartest person in the room, he was. Doesn’t mean he’s better than me. He was just smarter than me in a lot of areas that I’m not.
And I think that was one of the things that really changed the course for me. If I hadn’t have taken that step, I would’ve had a lovely business, probably just like me mom and dad’s. You know, few hundred grand turnover, decent profit, and a lifestyle business. But this kinda catapulted me, and so we got kind of the first two years in or something.
He had to leave his job. Isn’t that mad? So imagine you, so if it’s like a sliding doors moment, imagine that you didn’t hire that guy or work with that guy that had those skillsets that could help you. Do you, do you strongly believe that you might have stayed, you might not have made that breakthrough?
Do, or do you think it just would’ve been another decade or another five years? How badly do you think that impacted you? I would like to think that I had the foresight to realize that I needed to hire people that were be- Now, it’s, now I advocate all the time, go and hire people that are better than you.
Like, that’s who, that’s gonna… And, and not only that, then don’t tell them what to do. Right? There’s no point paying people all this money to then do what you’ve thought of. You’re not gonna pay admin people to do that, right? I’d like to think I had the foresight to do that, but actually he fell into me lap You know, I was lucky enough that he was just in my life, and he fell into my lap, and I liked him, I trusted him, so that give us that push.
So I’d like to think I would’ve got there eventually. Yeah. I wouldn’t have got there as fast. Yeah, yeah. He probably wouldn’t have been employee number four- Yeah … which wouldn’t have taken the business through kind of stratospheric growth- Mm … in those early years had that not been the case. So he did make a huge difference, and he was the first time I did that.
You know what? ‘Cause I’d hired somebody at that level. I then had a few more admin people, so it was a, you know, it was a while later till I hired my next big hitting member of staff. But you know, to this day, I still employ people in my businesses that earn a lot more money than me, and I’m okay with that, right?
I’ve meet a lot of entrepreneurs who are not okay with that, right? Mm. And it’s honestly, it’s just ego that holds them back. And I can say this because we’re in a room of predominantly women, where you tend to have less ego problems. Than when I have you doing predominantly men. I actually said- Show our thanks, guys.
What do- I said backstage, I said, “We’re, we’re usually, you know, our clients are about 60 to 70% women. We’re, we’re probably a little bit more, uh, th- 60% probably women, 40% men.” And you, you said that. You said exactly that. She said, “Yes, ’cause women listen and men think they’re too, too good.” A lot of the time, but you know, it’s, it is dropping that ego is, is definitely- It is
a key to su- key to success. Like- And it’s not that we haven’t all got one. Mm. I’ve got a massive ego. I’ve got a massive ego. I just know how to control it, and I don’t let it get in the way of building my success. But if I sat here and said I haven’t got an ego, I’d be lying. Anybody who tells you- Yeah
that would be lying. It’s your ability to manage and control your own ego and to have a growth mindset to move past that that will allow you to create an environment where you can become the best version of yourself and create the most successful business. Brilliant. Um, um, so you go and make that hire.
That impacts the business. That also gives you a bit of a turning point where you start to see things differently, and you start to build the team. What was the impact of bringing the quality into the business? You know, how did that impact the business? What was the growth like? You know, how rapid was it?
What changed? I’d love to… ‘Cause when you make a transitional decision like that- Yeah … and, and things start to change, and everything moves in a direction, I’d just be really interested to hear, like, what happened in the business after that. Yeah. We went through some pretty monumental growth. I mean, it’s, it’s easy to gr- when it’s a small number, it’s easy to double year on year.
But we were just doubling year, and that was, that became my norm. But also, I think it’s really important to understand what you’re good at and make that your focus, and then the stuff that you’re not so good at, hire the best thing you can to do that sort of stuff. Okay? So prime example is I’m not- I’m not, um, finance-minded, I’m not logistics-mind.
I have a better understanding of numbers than most non-financial people sitting at the board table, but I’m not good enough to run the business from the numbers. Well, my husband happens to be an accountant, so actually bloody good setup. Paid him in love, um, so really- I didn’t have to pay my accountant for the first couple of years until he left work and joined the business, uh, which was another big transition for us.
But I understood and accepted that that wasn’t my forte. Mm. I always remember, um, and it was my university lecturer who told me this. So bear in mind, I set up the business in that summer before I went into my last year at uni. So… And it was only me. Well, it was me and my best friend’s mum came to work for us a couple of hours a day, but I was at York w- running from my university bedroom, and she was back up at home.
She would come to me mum and dad’s house to print the orders out and pick and pack, pick, pack, and dispatch the orders for us. But I needed a website. So I went to my university lecturer, and I, uh, who taught the IT modules, and I said, “Can you teach… Can you show me where I can go and take night classes to learn how to build a website?”
So it was before, like, YouTube, and that was big and thought if I go and take a Dreamweaver course, I can build a Dreamweaver website, right? And he just said, “Sara, I’m gonna give you a piece of advice, and I really hope it sticks with you.” He said, “Focus on the things that you’re really good at and pay the best that you can to do the stuff you’re not.”
I said, “Tony, you’re not hearing us. I’m a tiny business. I’ve got no money. I’ve, I, I, I mean, I’m selling.” We were selling about 10,000 envelopes a week at the time, but only just, you know. So I said, “I, I, I, like, I, I cannot. I haven’t got any money to build a website.” I said, “I’ve had a quote and it’s gonna be four and a half grand to have a website built.
I haven’t got that sort of money.” And he was like, “There’s always more than one way to skin a cat.” Yeah. I said, “Well, it’s got to be me.” Then he said, “I tell you now, there’s a year, there’s a kid in the year below you at university who does this sort of sh- shit on a night for fun, right? Go and get him to build you a website.”
And I went to that lad, I paid him 200 quid, and he built us me first website. And, and I remember it was such an amazing life lesson because I would’ve spent eight weeks, hours and hours and hours of me time, and had a pretty crap website at the end of it, right? I would never have thought to go a different route to the, a one that was immediately obvious in front of me of go and find a company that builds websites.
Mm-hmm. But in doing that, I freed up my time. So he built the website, I went out and sold. That’s what I do better than anybody else. I sell shit, right? And I- … so I, all my focus on the selling and s- and, and he did that. My husband was helping us do the numbers, and that’s how we grew so fast, because I doubled down on what my core skills were.
And if I look at points in the business where we’ve kind of constricted from that, but where we’ve hit a point and then we’ve plateaued a little bit, every time it’s because I stepped away from doing the stuff because I’ve got ingrained in something else. Mm. And it’s, it’s not moving forward on where you add the most value to the business.
Oh, awesome. And, and this business obviously grows to, to 30 million plus, so you go on this huge journey. Um, what was the mechanism for getting such fast growth in this business? Because you, a lot of items, essentially, because quite, some of it’s low ticket, right? Yeah. So you got quite low priced items. How, how did it gather that kind of scale and really start scaling up?
I think the thing that worked really well for me is our, our cash cycle was good. So I was making envelopers and then CD-ROMs and everything, here in the UK, so I could launch a new product, get, uh, you know, we, we were doing well so we’d go get credit terms. So I’d sell the products, get the money immediately from the people online that I was selling to.
I didn’t have to pay for another, you know, 30 or 60 days if I couldn’t negotiate. So I had a, I, I, I had plenty of cashflow and working capital. Our limiting factor in growing the business was never cash. It was always my bandwidth to be able to do more. And because I realized this early on and wasn’t frightened to bring in people who could do the stuff- Mm
that I wasn’t as good at, that was my way of driving the business forward. I think the biggest turning point after that for me, really interestingly, was when I decided to have my first baby. Um, so I decided, we tried for a few years, but what had eventually happened, I remember that was the only thing that forced me out of the business.
So as much as I’m telling you that I’m giving all these people control and I’m hiring these great people who know what they’re doing, actually I was probably a bit of a control freak. But because I was the woman and therefore I was gonna have to have a bit of time off, it was only a few months I was totally out the business, but I took three months completely out.
And in that time, I had to empower people to step up and make decisions. They’d always been capable of making decisions, but I never let them. They, you know, they would, they would come to me with a decision, and then I had to approve it. So in them three months, they were stepping up and making them decisions.
And do you know what? Some of them stepped into it, and some of them couldn’t handle the pressure, but at least it showed me how to do it. And that was almost, when I came back after maternity leave, it was almost like the, the shackles had been lifted, and all of a sudden we could go again and go big and faster.
Yeah. Because all the stuff that I was involved in, I just didn’t go back and get involved in it, ’cause I was like- Gosh … “Well, you, you’re doing a great job of that now. So now what should I do? Oh, I could go and sell.” And I’d created more time and more space me to go and sell. And I got back into the driving seat and selling, and the company went through another big jump and a, and a leap.
Because over the years, I’d picked up all of this responsibility, and I’d lost sight in some ways- Mm … of the big focus point of where would I value. So every time you relinquished the control, you went through the next phase of growth. The next phase. Yeah. It’s often, often, isn’t it? It’s, uh, it’s incredible.
So you go on this journey, build this great business. How does, uh, Dragons’ Den come into, to your life? What, at what stage did this happen, and, and, you know, what was, what was that like, and was it a bit of a shock? Were you surprised? Tell us a little bit about how that went. Yeah, so, um, the whole Dragons’ Den thing- Randomly, I happened to live four doors away from Duncan Bannatyne.
Right? So- I remember when we bought the house- … they said to us, “Oh, by the way, guess who lives in there? Duncan Bannatyne lives on this street as well.” And I was like, “Oh. Oh, wow.” And so it put Dragon’s Den in my head. And so I’d, I’d always under- I’d always loved the show, and I’d understood about investing because when I was in my early 20s, I got invited to be part of a, a group of high net worth females in the Northeast called Gabriel Investors, and that’s what we did.
We invested in other businesses. We used to joke and say, “We’re, we’re like dragons, but we’re the nice ones, so we call ourselves angels.” Um, it’s… So we, we were like an angel investment group, and I’d done some investing. Lost a lot of money in the process. You know, it’s always a learning curve. And but it taught me about investing.
So I’d done 15 years of shop and telly, and if you can do shop and telly, you can do any sort of telly, I can tell you. Uh, as you’ll well know. So I’d done 15 years of TV experience, and I’d had loads of investing experience. And so I used to joke to my friends and say, “Oh yeah, well, maybe s- maybe I’ll get chatting to Duncan when we’re putting the bins out one night, you know, and-
and, and I might tell him I’m really good at this.” And he might say, “Oh, I’ll ring the producers and tell them.” And I was joking and telling my friend this one day or whatever, and he, and he just said, “Well, if you think you’d be good at it, why, why don’t, why don’t you ring them and see? ‘Cause they might be looking for a female dragon.”
I was like, “You don’t just ring the bloody BBC and ask if you can be a dragon. No, this all s- And he, and he was like, “Well, sure you do.” And I, and I wouldn’t have had the confidence to do it. I really wouldn’t, son. And bless you. And so he actually rang. We’d had the conversation on the Saturday night. He rang on the Monday morning and went through the process of applying to be on the show, got through to speak to a producer and said, “Actually, I don’t wanna be on the show.
I wanna tell you about my friend. She’d be an awesome dragon.” Ooh. And, um, he basically did a sales pitch on me, and then rang us up and said, “Guess what? You’ve got an interview this afternoon.” And it was me first kind of call with a producer, and then from there it went… I went through rounds of interviews and screen tests and everything like that.
But what you’ll find with me is give us an inch and I’m taking a mile, right? I only need somebody to wedge that door open a tiny bit and I’ll bulldoze me way through it. ‘Cause I’m so determined and passionate, and I’ll keep pushing. So, and he did, he did. He just crunched open the door for us, and it was me ready to go for it.
So, um, yeah. So when people ask, “How do you get to be a dragon on Dragon’s Den?” It turns out you do just ring the BBC and-
Brilliant. And what, what was, what was the first time like? I mean, did you, did you have any imposter syndrome? Did you have any fear? You’re sitting up there for the first time. Obviously, you, you are very confident, right? And there’s no doubt about that. I’m outwardly confident. Yeah, outwardly. Yeah, yeah.
Doesn’t mean I’m feeling it in here. Yeah, yeah. Just means what I’m letting you see- Yeah … is reeking of confidence. So what was behind the scenes for you when, when you go on there, what were you, what were you feeling? What were you saying to yourself at that stage? So, um, I am, I am definitely a fake it till you make it type person, and I am…
Like, I was the kid at school who was really shy and didn’t dare talk to the other kids, and people don’t believe that of me now. Do you see this version of me? But this, this has not happened. I’ve had to make this become, otherwise, I miss out on too many opportunities in my life, like getting to speak to…
I mean, like, I was terrified sitting outside waiting to come out and speak to you lot, right? You just wanted to get on, didn’t you? Come on. Come on. But I know how much I love doing this, and so i- if you let fear stop you, you’ll never get anywhere. So, um, with Dragons Den, Touker is who done my Screen It, and he’s like a big teddy bear, isn’t he?
He’s just, he is exactly. He’s so lovely, and, and he doesn’t seem as scary as the other ones said, right? No. So on the first day, he happened to be in the green room having a cup of tea when I arrived. So I went in and I said, “Oh, hiya, Touker. Um, I don’t know if you remember me.” He’s like, “I remember you. I’m the one who told the BBC they should hire you.
I said you’d be brilliant.” So I was like, “Right, great.” I said, “I, I’ve done loads of investing before, and I’ve done loads of TV, but this is all new. Like, this environment is new, and I was wondering if you would mentor me.” Now people ask all the time, the people come and ask me all the time, “Will you mentor me?”
I don’t think they actually know what they’re asking for, what that means. So I always say if you… A mentor is critical. You should have several mentors in your life. It’ll make a big difference. But choosing the right ones, and in that moment, Tugba was perfect because he, you know, he had all the skills.
And what I did is I went and I said, “Here’s what we’ll do. After we’ve-” So now you’ve agreed, here’s how we’re gonna do it, right? I said, “After we’ve done one of the pitch bits, we’ll come back in the green room, I’ll stick the kettle on and make you a cup of tea, and then while we’re having a cup of tea you can tell us what you think I did all right, where you think I can do better.”
Right? So basically I created an environment for him to be able to give me that feedback, and because I’d done that, I… Honestly, and, and he was so excited. He was so excited- … that I’d asked him to do this- Yeah … and I really valued his opinion. So it was a two-way street. He was get- what you’ll find is with mentors, find the right person, they will get as much out of mentoring you as you will get from them.
Mm. That’s the beauty of it is. You got the wrong… Right, if one of you guys comes and asks me now, “Can you mentor me?” I can tell you, I, I daren’t even drink enough water during the day ’cause I
haven’t got time to go for a
pee, right?
I’ve been in working person I think, um, in that first year I sat in that thing, and I did have massive imposter syndrome. I, I d- I didn’t think I was good enough to be there. I felt like it was a fluke, and I talked me way into getting that space, and one day they were gonna work out that I wasn’t good enough to be there and realize what an awful mistake.
They’re like, “This is what we do. We tell ourselves we’re not good enough, and we, we create these stories,” right? And, and it was… And so I would sit there overthinking of everything. You know, I would, I would want to ask a question, but then I’d think, “Eeh, what’s Peter Jones gonna think of us if I ask that question?
He’s gonna think I’m stupid.” You know, and, and, and so I overthought everything I was doing, and I, and I stopped myself from being myself. I stopped myself from pushing bold and asking the things I really wanted to ask. Probably the very reason they hired you in the first place. Probably, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I thought- The personality and the character and, you know.
And he drew that out of me. He gave me the confidence. You know, he would say after we came out, “Well, what did you want to ask there? What did you…” And he would give you the confidence to go out and be me. And I think that whole, the whole thing around imposter syndrome, you know, I, I would sit there in that chair and I’d be like, “Jesus, that’s Deborah Meaden.
That, that is actually the Deborah Meaden.” There’s… Someone’s gonna walk through that door, and do you know, I used to dread the five dragon scraps, you know, where all five- Oh, friend. Mm-hmm. Because I’m sat there thinking, “Oh my God, if all five of us put an offer in here, no one’s ever gonna pick me. Why would you pick me if you could pick Deborah Meaden- Yeah
or Peter Jones? Why, why would you pick me? I’m, I’m not good enough.” Like, that’s… ‘Cause I was telling myself that and I was… So the f- the ones where it was a really, really great business, quite often I would find a reason to come out instead of… ‘Cause I didn’t want to- Wow … when the, you know, when the tables turn and all of a sudden the dragons sell themselves, I was never confident enough to go and sell myself, so I’d bow out before I’d fight for a one.
Isn’t that amazing based off of all the things that you’ve al- Mm. You know, in terms of the con- And if you sit down, you wouldn’t- Yeah, yeah … you wouldn’t learn that. Yeah. But that’s, I was, I was… Honestly, I was rid of that, and I think it’s, it was too instrumental. They give me the confidence to sometimes think, “You know, I, I might be all right.”
And I remember, it was in my first year and I went for this b- no, the second year I think, and I went for this business, and it was me and Peter Jones both went for it. And, so I’m thinking, “Well, they’re not gonna pick me, are they? No, they’re not gonna pick me.” But I just, I, I think they’d had a connection with us and then they, they fe- they’ve obviously felt it.
So even though he might have, you know, businesses up and down, he… The yin yang, and he’s worth millions and zillions of pounds- … and, “I’m gonna do this, and I’ll ring Marks & Spencer’s.” And they’d think, “Yeah, don’t go anybody at Marks & Spencer.” And, and, and I, but I, but I, I also, I was so passionate. The business was called Will Sow actually.
It was plantable children’s books. And I think because I was a mother and I was so, I was so passionate about their business, they picked me And, and I remember it was a real turning point and wake-up call for me, ’cause I just s- started to think, “Actually, I’m way better for them than Peter, Miss.” Yeah. I’m that p- and, and, and that turning point.
Mm-hmm. And I think there’s a whole thing. You know, if you look back, if you watch me on me first season, that’s the one where I’ve got the purple spotty dress on. I, ’cause I have to wear the same clothes every, every out- uh, episode. That’s me purple spotty dress. You’ll see as being a bit more reserved. If you watch us on last year’s season, that’s the bright orange jacket.
I sit there and I’m thinking, “Bloody BBC are lucky to have me.” So that’s the difference- Mm … ’cause I’ve got that inner confidence, but it took, took six years of constant self-criticism, and self-coaching, and self-development, and being mentored by the right people to build up that confidence to get there. It doesn’t happen overnight.
You’ve got to work on it. And the biggest thing I would say on imposter syndrome, and this is, um, where I always say to people about this, the thing that I look back now and I think, “I didn’t think I was good enough to sit in that chair,” but that was not my call to make. It was not my decision that I got to be a Dragon.
That was the producers, signed off by the executive producers, signed off by the commissioner, signed off by the head of the BBC, right? And they are all people who are fully qualified in knowing what they need in a Dragon. So the people who have hired many Dragons before me are the people who’ve looked at me, thoroughly assessed me against loads of competition, and decided I’m good enough.
So who the hell am I to sit in that chair and think that I’m not? Mm-hmm. I’m not qualified to make that call. So actually, I should sit there and just be the best version of me that I can possibly be, give everything 110%, and show them why they were right to pick me. And I think when you change your mindset and think that way, it’s really freeing and empowering.
And I always say to people, you know, whether you’ve got yourself onto a business development program or into a, you know, a board, you know, a volunteer board for something or anything, and you, and you feel like that imposter syndrome, that you don’t deserve to be there, just remember, you probably didn’t make the decision on whether or not you got to sit there.
Somebody else did. Mm-hmm. Somebody who knows what it takes to be there. Your job’s to prove to them that you were a good choice, and live up to that. And if you are good enough, work on your self-development to get yourself good enough by the time anybody works out you weren’t good enough. Yeah. You’re good.
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Brilliant. What, what are the characteristics? Obviously you made a lot of investments, some great investments. Um, what are the characteristics of the business owner that you’re really looking for? Like, and the s- not just the characteristics, so that’s obviously the, the characteristics of them as a person, but the skillsets as well.
What skillsets are you looking for and, and you’re really looking and saying, “Actually, this is someone that has the mentality, that has the skills.” Yeah. Someone… What, what’s that person look like to you, if you could describe it? And write these down. On your thread Passion, vision, drive Okay Passion, vision, drive.
Right? And I make a decision on somebody within about three minutes of them walking through them Myth doors, ’cause I can tell if they’ve got that, if they’ve got what it takes. And if they have that real… If they are as passionate about that business as I am about bloody making envelopes, right? I know I, I built a multimillion-pound business in a niche, in a niche of a niche of an industry.
I became a millionaire selling envelope folding to us. It’s not the product. It’s not the product. It’s not even the business model. It’s the individual. Yeah. It’s all about the person. And if that person is so passionate about what they’re gonna do, even if what they are pitching me right now in this moment doesn’t work, they will have the vision, the drive, the foresight to be able to pivot and make it into something else that will.
I can work with that. You know, I don’t mind if actually the path we’re on doesn’t turn out to be right and we lose money, like, let’s, let’s pivot and do something different. But if they haven’t got that, they’re not the right person. And also, what… And I have a different lens on investing to a lot of other people, um, which maybe is a bit unhealthy at times, but if you think about it, we’re gonna do a season of Dragon’s Den.
It’s our money, and in one season I can spend probably up to about half a million on maybe a dozen businesses. Now, if I’ve got half a million quid spare in a year, I can either choose to invest it in my own business, Crafter’s Companion, where I know I’ve got a proven track record, I have 100% faith in me, and I know that half a million pound of investing I can turn into a couple of million quid.
I know that. I, I don’t doubt that at all, right? Or I can take that half a million quid and spend it on a dozen businesses knowing fine well that the statistics say 70% of them are gonna fail. Mm. 20% might wash their face. One might come good, right? Is a busi- weighing that up as a business decision, you would back yourself every day of the week, wouldn’t you?
But what I realize is, there gets to a point in your life, and it’s, it’s all right for me to say this ’cause I’m a little bit further down this journey than you are, and I don’t want to sound crass in saying it, but it gets to a point whereby making more money doesn’t fill me cup up anymore. Yeah. Like, I’ve…
I- that my cup is overflowing with everything that I’ve got from Crafter’s Companion, whereas actually being a part of somebody else’s journey, you know, that… I mentioned Wilson earlier, right? They’re a third-generation family business. Young lad, the, the business was failing, ’cause they were printers, and that business was in decline.
So he came up with this idea of putting seeds into pulp paper and writing children’s books whereby you then cut the back cover of the book off and grow it, plant it, and you would grow the main protagonist from the book, right? I’ve looked, I’ve opened doors for him in America, he started exporting to China, he’s had a little baby now as well.
Like, the bi- the business has quadrupled in size since I started. And I look and I think, “I’ve paid, played a part in that.” Mm. And I, I can’t put a price on that. Like, that, that’s got my cup overflowing. And a lot of my businesses that I’ve got involved with are exactly like that. And being a part of someone else’s journey is so much more empowering than, than taking your own on another level.
Mm. So when I sit there in the day and someone pitches to me, what I’m doing is I’m working out, are you worth my time? Am I going to enjoy spending time with you? Are you going to hang off my every word? And what, what I find is the time I spend with my entrepreneurs, I get as much from it as what they do.
It’s honestly, it’s the most wonderful experience. Um, so it’s, it, it is a really different dynamic, though. You, you’ll not find institutional investors that quite have the same approach as investors I do. But it’s, um, yeah, it’s been a, it’s been a fabulous chapter of my life. Yeah. And one of the investments has been, you know, quite a famous investment.
Yes. I’ll, I’ll ask you differently rather than state that for you. What’s been your favorite investment? What’s been a deal that you loved to do, or a business owner that’s just a delight to work with? And, and what, what is it about them that you’ve found to be a delight? I had a great one last year. I don’t know if any of you saw it.
Uh, it’s a woman called Carla, and she had curly hair, and she’d, um, she’d launched this product, which is a towel for drying your hair when you hop out the shower. And Carla had … She did this technique called plopping, where if you’ve got curly hair, you’re the curly-haired ladies, they’re all giving us a nod.
I never owned it, right? Yeah. And to do this technique and look after your hair, you need, um, a towel that’s made out of cotton. Yeah. And she thought that was really obvious, but nobody sold towels that were made out of cotton. And she’d just turned 50, and she thought, “Well, if I’m researching this and I’ve got to this, surely other women are.
There must be an opportunity here.” So she, at 50 year old, went to university to do a business degree so that she’d have the knowledge to be able to start a business. And she started the business. I think she did about 18 grand worth of sales when she came into the den, and she came into the den ’cause she was looking for somebody to kind of mentor her on the next stage of the, the journey.
And she was talking about how proud her sons were of the fact that she’d, you know, plucked up… Because going on national telly was a big deal for her. And I remember in that moment, so Touker made an offer on the business as well, and I made an offer, so we went head-to-head But the difference is, so she sh- she showed us the product, and he said, “Well, how much does this cost?”
And she was like, “Oh, £6.38.” “Oh, but £6.38, and I sell them for 24.99.” And he said, “£6.38? I can have these made in China probably 50 cents.” Right? And she said, “I, I don’t, I don’t want to make them in China.” “I, I really, I, I, I’m supporting a lo- people are prepared to pay 24.99 for them. I’m supporting a, a supply chain here in the UK.
My product’s, you know, it’s unbelievable quality, so I’m sure you could make it in China for cheaper. I’m telling you, you couldn’t make it for 50 cents. But even if I could, I, I don’t want to do it. This is, this is how I’m choosing to build my business with purpose.” And, and so, and, and, and I just… I could see her.
I could se- see her, and I just thought, “You, I can work with, pet. ‘Cause your, your, your values and that are so strong, and your work ethic.” To go to univer- to give up a really well-paid career and go to university at 50 year old to learn business because you felt that there was such a need for this. You know, and she’s a B Corp now, and she’s building this business.
She was my most successful ever in terms of on the night of the Den. So what I do with my investments, which are really lovely actually, is we film in mid-June. Mm. And then every year in September, I hold a conference, and I invite all of my investments, so all the ones from the previous years and then the ones from this year that are going through due diligence.
No, not all of them will go ahead- Yeah … with the investment. But they all come up, and I give them all the training. So I do, very similar to this, coaching sessions. You know, we do the seminars. And then the ones who are gonna be airing for the first time the next year, they stay on an extra day, and I teach them how to prepare for the screening.
So even if they decide not to go ahead with the investment, which some of them don’t, I feel like I’ve added value to them and I can help them maximize the exposure of what’s it gonna mean when four million people see your product- Mm … on BBC One on that Thursday night. And I always get a couple of my businesses from the previous year to stay and help.
And I always remember the one who stayed and mentored, uh, was, um, Scoffpaper the year before, which was my edible greetings cards for dogs. Which was one of these- Scoffpaper … five dragons scrapping in front of… I think it might have been the six dragons scrappers. I think might have been when we had a guest dragon in, and I was the only dragon and didn’t have a dog.
And we all made an offer on that business, and she picked me. And yet I’m the only one who couldn’t firsthand understand why people would buy cards- … that are just to eat. So I got ca- our cards, I still can’t understand the psyche ’cause I’m not a dog owner, right? But my God, she’s got a brilliant business, and she had a great night on the Den, and she then mentored Carla.
So even though it was a dog-eating card business- … it’s the hair towel whopping business She mentored her through this process. Gemma mentored Carla, and they’ve become great friends, as have all of my businesses actually. But she had the most successful night, the night it aired on the Den, in terms of sales, because she was fully prepared.
She used the investment that I made in the business to spend a fortune stockpile, so she had loads of stock. She was ready. The website, it must be one of the only businesses whose website didn’t go down on the night. When the website was creaking or whatever, they had the product on Amazon. She was ready to go, and she sold a bloody, double damn fortune, which gave us a huge cash injection, which funded the next stage of growth for the rest of the year.
So it was, um, it was brilliant to see how they… I dunno how the hell I diversified. If that was the answer to the question, but I know I’ve gone off on a tangent there. Oh. Just tell me. Well, I now know that I can buy my dog a card for, for his birthday. Yeah. Which is definitely cool. And, and Scrub Daddy was one of yours, is that correct as well?
Scrub Daddy’s not one of mine. Oh, is it not? No. I did… I made a boot- Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah … for Deborahs. Oh, was it really? Yeah. One of Deborah’s brilliant businesses. Yeah, yeah. And she loves it. Does she? Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. Um, it, you know, it’s been an incredible journey, um, for you with, with all these business owners.
So what would you say to someone in the audience, I think this is the, the message, you know that we’ve got many people that are at the beginning of their journey, and there’s still some fear there. They’ve gotta step forward, they’ve gotta take more action and, and start to build their businesses. I’d love to see if we’ve got a message for, for, for those people that are early, that perhaps are sitting on the fence a little bit, that need to push forward, but don’t know what to do.
Um, what would you say to some of the people in the audience that are at that stage? So fear is a rational feeling, that it’s perfectly all right to be absolutely terrified. I was as well, right? But just remember what I did with that envelope, right? I was faced with the choice of, you know, oh, I needed 30 grand to not bring this first product to market.
And so for a lot of people, they then go, “I can either not do this, or I can go and remortgage my house.” But not many people go, “Or I’ll just compromise and do it a different way.” And I think it’s that, it’s that always thinking. There’s, there’s always another way to find around it. And, you know- Being resourceful, you’d say
just be resourceful. And I think a, a lot of… Like, it’s when people come in the Den and the other dragons, you know, they’ll say to us, “Oh, well, I’ve got this idea and I’m basically, I’ve still got me full-time job and I’m running this as a side hustle.” And the dragons never seem to like that, ’cause they want to know that you
They want to see you fully committed. I’m all up for that. ‘Cause that’s it. If that is what’s gonna take away the fear, do it. Don’t get me wrong, bloody hard work. That’s all right, ’cause it’s gonna set you up for the hard work that’s to come as you build the business. So if you’re one of the ones that’s sat there that hasn’t taken that leap yet, ’cause it, it doesn’t have to be all or nothing.
It’s a really difficult economic climate at the moment. It’s a really difficult one. And the beauty of it is, you can get a business going in this economic climate, give it a few years, hell yeah, you will be laughing, right? That’s so true. But then you will be two or three rungs up the ladder when everyone else is wanting to start a business and it’s a competitive market.
So is it the right time to do it now? Bloody hell yes it is, right? But if, if it’s fear that’s stopping you, do not have yourself crippled with fear. You’re gonna have enough worries about the business as it is, without then worrying about, “Shit, how am I gonna pay the mortgage?” Right? So keep the job, pay the bloody mortgage, do this as a side hustle.
Is it gonna be hard work? Yes. If you think you’re not cut out for the hard work, don’t do this thing. You’re not cut out for being an entrepreneur, right? But I’m guessing you’re in this room because you think you are prepared to do the hard work. So don’t be frightened to do it, and take the … T- take away anything that’s going, that’s, that’s living that fear, and do it that way, and build up from that.
And then have the confidence to push forward. And listen, everybody needs a bit of luck, right? Yeah. It’s, it’s what you do when you get that little bit of luck to turn it into something resourceful. Do not be frightened to be brave. Right? Do not be frightened to be brave. And the biggest thing I can say anybody is, surround yourself with the right people.
Mm. Right? It is e- just, even just the people in this room, right? Make sure by the time you leave here you’ve made friends with everybody, and you’ve found your tribe and your people. I can just … And it’s not connected to business, but it might draw a good parallel. I can remember when I first had the baby, and I went back to work after a few months.
And loads of the other mums that I made friends with were the ones who put their babies first. And so they were all taking career breaks, or they were only going back part-time and, you know, and their whole life revolved around that baby. And they, you know, they looked at the life I had and were envious of the money that I made and everything like that, but they were like, “Eh, I don’t know how you bought American.
You leave your baby for a few days. Oh, I couldn’t do it,” you know. And all the time I spent with them people felt like shit. I felt like a terrible mother, and I honestly, I felt shit, right? I look now and our Charlie’s class at school and I’ve made friends with some of the other mums, and they’re all career mums.
One’s an author, one’s a really… got a really high-powered job in a male-dominated career. One runs her own SEO company. And I found me people. And I’ve re- you know, and I spend time with them. So important, right? And I, and I, and I feel like an amazing mother. I feel like it’s all right to have a career. ‘Cause at the end of the day, you could- you…
It’s all right for us to do this. You’re not a selfish person by wanting to start your own business or have a high-shot career, ’cause chances are your motivation is you want to do it for all your family to benefit. Yeah. And are your family gonna have to make sacrifices as well as you? Yeah, they are. But you’re all doing it for the right reasons and it’s, but it’s all right for you to do this ’cause you want to do it as well.
You know, I, I, I remember going on Strictly Come Dancing, and me mum said to us, “Just go and do it, pet. We’ve got this. You know, between us, we’ll work out the childcare we do, ’cause you’ve never done anything for you in your life. Everything you’ve done has been for the family or for the business or for your step or whatever.
Go and do this for you, and we’ve got this.” And it’s… The, the business is for me. You know, I’d… I don’t, I don’t have to work. I could retire now and not do anything. Would I be a happy person? Would I be fulfilled? No. I have to be running along at 100 mile an hour leaving a massive trail of destruction behind you.
With a shit ton of risk that I probably don’t need to be taking. Right? But then- But that’s the adventure, right? Then I’m running on pure adrenaline- Yeah … and I am buoyant. So it’s… But you’ve gotta surround yourself with the right people. Yeah. ‘Cause if I tell you, if I hung out with them other mums too often, I would be a shell of the person you see today.
They say you’re a product of the five people you spend the most time with, right? And that includes the people you’re following on social media and whatnot. You, you spend a lot of time scrolling. Think about what’s coming up in your feed when you’re scrolling, right? Choose wisely. I think there’s something that’s dead…
I think that’s brilliant. And, and I think s- there’s kind of things that I said there- If you consider the example actually, ’cause a lot of people do have, like you say, like mom guilt or dad guilt or being away from the family. But even when you almost started the conversation, if we circle back to that, you said that most of the principles you learned quite early seeing your mom and dad in business.
You know, and I always remember that the, you are setting the example, right? You know, and I th- I think that’s, uh, re- really important as well. And I’ve got to ask yourself a random question now. Every time you answer a question, I’ll ask another one. Um, that’s kind of how these interview things go, right?
But, but as you, you mentioned about Strictly. Now, I mentioned to you about Sarah yesterday. How was your husband about you going on Strictly Come Dancing? Do you know what? We- Does he not watch it or…? We’ve been together since I was 15, so 27 years, so we’re pretty solid. But I have to say, it was made a hell of a lot easier having Aljaž.
So I was his ninth year, I think his ninth partner, and what he did the first night I ever brought him home, and I can remember it was our 30 wedding anniversary. And like- So he thought he’d been hit by the Strictly curse, eh? Invited him around for tea. And I remember we came home from rehearsals, and I took him to pick the kids up from school as well, and then he was playing with the kids, building Lego and playing football cards on the landing and whatnot.
And I heard one of the kids shout, “Oh, I think Daddy’s home.” And Aljaž said to me, “Um, will you, will you just go and have a shower?” And I said, “I’ve already had one.” He said, “Well, no, can you just go and have another one?” And what he meant was, find a reason to not be here. So when your husband arrives back- … I want you to not be here.
So I went and got in the shower, and I was gone about maybes half an hour, and by the time I came out, Simon and Alyash were sat on the sofa with a beer, watching the football, putting the world to rights like they’d been best friends for years. And, and I can remember th- th- one of the weeks, I remember, uh, Simon said to me, mate, saying, “Oh, well when, when Alyash texts us.”
And I went, “Alyash texts you?” And he went, “Oh, yeah, we text most days.” And I, and I thought, “You are so smart.” Because what he’s done is, he’s, he’s made sure me husband loved him, me kids adored him, me dad… I mean, me dad did an interview with The Sun, he referred to him as a third son-in-law. Me father, dad, absolute…
I mean, he is a charmer. Well, he’s like this. He wangled his way into the family so that the whole family loved him, so that when I was weeks and weeks in and I was away from home more, you know, it was taking its toll on, on Simon, who was having to not only be a single parent with two kids, but also run the business and the investment portfolio, was having to hold all that together.
Everybody’s having to step in and do more. Actually, nobody resents it because they’re all part of the journey with us. Mm. And I looked at some of the other contestants whose partners were starting to resent it, and then you see the cracks starting to appear- Yeah … and everything like that. And actually, my whole family was so on board with it, and I think he did that ’cause he’s a really smart cookie.
Yeah. That’s really good. And he’s one in a million. I mean, if you think he looks like a nice bloke, he’s like 100 times nicer in real life. I mean, out of one of the sexiest men on earth, Left phases. Also a hunk. Also a hunk. Di- didn’t mention that, though, yeah.
Oh, brilliant. Um, there’s one more message. Um, I’ve got, uh, one or two of our amazing clients, we’ve got two of our clients who are gonna come up and ask a question. Ooh. I just think … Yeah. They’re gonna pitch you. No worry. Right. Um, th- they’re gonna come up and acro- ask a question. Obviously, we talked to some of the people at the early stage.
I’d love to perhaps just what would your message be for some of the businesses that are a bit bigger- Yeah … they’re pushing on now. Um, they’re, you know, they’re perhaps a little bit overworked. They’ve been working really, really hard. Um, they’ve been doing absolutely everything. Yeah. What would you say to them to, to, to push on a gear and, and really get their business scaling?
So if we were to say about scaling, I think that’d be a really cool thing if you had a message for them. Your people are everything. Everything. You are only as good as them people, right? But it is your job to create an environment for them to succeed, right? So if they are not adding the value they should be at the moment, don’t look at what they’re doing wrong, turn the mirror, then question what you’re doing wrong.
How are, how are you creating that environment for them to succeed? Mm. And I think if you can be s- super critical. I look in our business, and I sometimes, whether it’s wrong or not, acknowledge this, every problem- 100% … is my fault anyway. Yeah, 100%. Somehow it comes down to being my fault ’cause the buck stops with me.
It’s my business. I’ve chosen the people that get to sit around the table. I’ve created the environment b- that they work in, so if something’s not working, it, it’s on my shoulders. And I think taking that responsibility instead of blaming others really helps. Mm. So if you, if you’ve gone through that stage of hiring people who are better than you, brilliant, you’ve done the hard bit first of all, right?
If you haven’t, please hold on to my James Brown story of earlier ’cause it was the game-changing moment in the business. Um, but then if you’ve got them good people, you need to be able to make it to a su- so that they can succeed. Best thing you can do is get the hell out of their way, right? They, they, they
You’ve hired them for a reason. Go and put them, go and put them to work in that front because actually you just running yourself ragged and be- being a martyr to it is not helping anybody. Remember what I said? The business went through its biggest stage of growth when I went on maternity leave. That in and of itself was the penny drop moment for me.
Mm. Right? We’re about a 10 million turnover business at the time. That was what allowed the business. We went … You know, we’d worked 10 years to get to 10 million. We went from 10 to 30 in the next couple of years, and it’s, it’s not … You know, a lot of people would struggle from an ego perspective with that thing of, “Actually, I came out of the business and it allowed it to grow,” but it allowed me to reflect and see what I was doing wrong and how I was holding those people back from being able to grow.
‘Cause if it’s only you driving the growth of the business, you are one person. Yeah. If you have a couple of other people and you’ve created that environment, you are multiple people and you’ll drive for- drive forward exponentially. Brilliant. Is there one tip you’d give on environment creation? Is there anything that, you know, say you’ve got a senior management team.
Yeah. Um, what would you say is one of the most powerful ways to create a good environment for that senior management team to thrive? Um, honesty and trust and openness, but know, know your values. I paid a leadership coach, and Jesus, she’s a fecking fortune, but she’s the best goddamn money I’ve ever spent, um, to come in and work with me on my personal values, and then identifying the business’s values, and then how we build those values into our hiring process and our decision-making process.
And in doing that, it really allowed me to create the environment where those people could succeed because everything I learned in the business boiled down to those values. Why them people came to work for me in the first place, what motivates them, everything boiled down to those values. And what I’ve realized is when we hit stumbling points, it’s because I’d brought other people in who then tried to run the business not on those values, you know, at the- Mm.
And it… That’s been the biggest challenge in creating the right environment over the last… It was, it was easy in the early years because I can set the tone and the environment all the time. Once we got above 100 staff, it was difficult for me to do that. Yeah. And then you, you lose it through layers of management.
So just remember, and I think one of the things I would’ve done wrong, which is a g- a good thing to, to, to notice is I’m manic. I’m 100 mile an hour all the time, and I run at 100 mile an hour and leave a huge trail of destruction behind me, and I run everything on positive energy. And I was coming into the office every day with this level of pos- positive energy thinking this was brilliant for the staff ’cause that’s what they want to follow.
After so long they got exhausted Yeah Right? They needed to see stability and structure and how they could develop in their roles. They couldn’t just run on my energy, yeah. They needed that structure, and I didn’t understand that at the time. I can look back on it now- See it, yeah … and see what I was doing wrong, but in that moment at that time, I was just thinking, “I’m just the energy source.”
Yeah. And that’s not enough. Yeah. They need, th- they all need to be able to, to drive their own en- It’s tough to be the energy source for a large business, isn’t it? Really, really tough. And how… You mentioned coaching there. You’ve- Yeah … you’ve hired coaches, and I think that sometimes people look at people that are really successful, and there’s almost like this myth of, you know, that they didn’t get any advice, they didn’t get any guidance, that they’re naturally talented or naturally brilliant.
But it’s really good to hear that you also embrace coaching. How many times have you done that throughout your career? Oh, um, I mean, the coach, the main coach I’ve worked with, I’ve worked with her for nearly 10 years now, and I will tell you she has been hands down the most instrumental person in my career, and w- without a shadow of a doubt.
And she coached me in my professional career as I built in the business, and I’ve had her coach several of my staff. Um, but then also Brand Sara is a business now. Yeah. And she coaches me in Brand Sara. You know, I’m, I’m running a conference in a, in a few weeks where I’m flying out all my core team and people around my agent, my PR people, my husband, me best friend, my inner circle, and I’m having her run a big two-day session to coach them people in how best to manage me.
That’s essentially what it is No, but it’s very true, isn’t it? Well, I just think if she’s had that much of an impact on me, how can I have a… And it’s just, you find the right person, the right cl- and personal development, oh my God. Just the fact that you’ve taken the time out and paid the money to come and be at something like this tells me you understand the importance of it, right?
It’s, it, the… I would, I would go on every course that was offered to me. The, for me, the big thing was TV shopping. So whenever QVC, whether it was in America or Germany, were running a course, I was there. Like, and it’s still to this day, I approach every day of, I, I’m, I’m still on a journey. You know? Right. I might be the best Rawson salesperson in Kraft globally, but I still wanna be better.
And so I’m constantly striving for that better, and being, having people who’ve been there, done that in both professionally are the ones that are able to get you to that sooner. Do, do you know what’s incredible is the fact that you said you worked with them for 10 years. I definitely feel that one of the, uh…
I’ve worked directly with Sarah for the past probably five years and, um, been, you know, it’s been amazing for me, actually. Incredible person. Um, a lot of people approach it more of a, a one-hit, like a plaster type thing as like, “Oh, everything’s gone wrong. I’ll get some coaching.” Where really it should be, it should be a case of actually- It’s ongoing
everything’s going right. How do I keep going? And it should be for life- Yeah … not just for, just for when there’s problems, not just for Christmas, right? Get it for Christmas as well. But, you know, that, that’s the reality. That, I truly believe that. Like, for me, I’ve just continually leveled up and leveled up and there’s a better version of me every month- Yeah
every three months, every six months and, and that’s something that I truly believe in, so it’s really cool that you, you believe it. Well, Percy said to me, and she said it, uh, it was this summer, actually. I used to book my sessions in once a month And I just got busy with life, and then, uh, you know, I- it dropped off and, and I, and ’cause I was on retainer, and then I dropped the retainer off, and I was like, “Well, I’ll just reach out to you when I need to do it.”
And then I didn’t reach out. And then she said the fad. And she had to do a lot of work to pick up the pieces. And she said, “I could see from a distance you were heading towards the cliff, but I, unless you reach out to me, I, I can’t, I can’t do that.” And it’s a little bit like, so I wanted to get fit. I wanted to start running, and someone said to us, “It takes three months to form a habit.”
And so they said, “Go and get yourself a running coach.” And what they said was, and, and what we did was, which I thought was really clever of me, is, um- … I booked a three-month plan. And even though you could pay as you go after every session, I prepaid for the three months. Mm. And I arranged for him to be on my doorstep two mornings a week.
And because I’d prepaid all that, I knew if I canceled Thursday morning, I’d have to find Friday, Saturday, or Sunday to work ’cause I’d already paid for it. Otherwise, I was gonna lose it, right? And that forced me to do them two running sessions a week, and within three months it had formed the habit. And it’s that whole thing is, like you said, you do- it’s not when you need it.
I wish I hadn’t waited till I had Kirsty’s support this summer because actually I think that transition that I went through over that period would’ve been so much easier. But I thought I was good enough. I thought I could handle this, and actually, y- you always need the support. And more than likely are, are good enough, but sometimes just the vocalization and just a, a talk it through, a tweak, a little thing can make a huge difference, can’t it?
Also, what gets measured gets done. Yeah. 100% So you’re accountable to somebody. Yeah. That’s the difference. You become accou- y- y- you know, you’ve got that monthly session, and whatever it is, you’re accountable to somebody. I know I’ve gotta turn up next morning. And, and what we tal- there’s no point in me turning up on that session, which I’ve paid for, if I haven’t worked on the stuff that she told me to work on last month.
‘Cause then she’ll get really annoyed that I’m wasting her time, and I’ll get really frustrated that I’m wasting money. But also, uh- … I’ll be, I’ll be annoyed that I’m not moving forward at the pace I want to. You know, it’s, the, the coaching’s just part of it. You’ve gotta work on yourself and the self-development, but they will hold you to account.
That’s the big difference I have found. Absolutely. Well, I, I’ve, I’ve really, really enjoyed this. I’ve got two, two of my wonderful clients I’m gonna invite up, and then we’re gonna do some amazing photos. Um, so we’ve got, uh, the lovely Nikki Ansty. So Nikki is, um, one of our, our clients. Um, she’s been working with us for a, a long time.
She’s doing really well. A pretty long time. She’s doing some great things. Uh, she’s a coach, um, herself. Uh, so let’s give it up for Nikki. She’s got a question she wants to ask you. Give it up.
Only the Well, what a gift you are coming on Whoo. It’s been amazing. Thank you so much. Um, you’ve … Adam’s talked a lot about the imposter syndrome, which has been really useful, but at any point you’ve talked, um, did you get to burnout? Because you’ve already talked about that you were kind of headed towards the cliff without, um, Kirsty being around.
Yeah. And how did you get back out, out of it, apart from having Kirsty, you know? Are there tips that you can help everybody else in the room? Yes. Right. So, um, I don’t think I’ve ever been so close to burnout that it was a, it was imminent. Pretty close in the summer last year, and when I reached out to Kirsty in the end.
But I think it’s, um, it’s knowing your signs and being able to look after yourself properly. So for me, I find that … And it’s I, I can’t do downtime. It just … I don’t en- I don’t enjoy it. I don’t, I don’t rejuvenate. Like, lying on the couch on a Saturday afternoon doesn’t do anything for me. I just get frustrated, right?
So I have to find what is my way of filling my cup up, so that when I’m doing something at work and my cup is so far drained, what am I gonna fill it up with? And I find that my running journey has really, really, really helped me. It’s, it’s my … What I’ve learned is, whatever the problem is, I, it’s never let me down.
Putting them trainers on and pounding the roads, I’ve never got back home and not solved it. It’s just … And it’s never let us down to this day. Sometimes I’ve had to run a long bloody time. Um, but I’ve got to the answer. And so now I trust that as my method of, so if something’s really playing on my mind, I’ll go and pound the roads and, and that’ll give us a solution.
And I’ve realized that getting involved with other businesses, like even coming to things like this or doing coaching of other people, helps give me a bit of perspective. So wh- when if I’m just working on my own business, I lose sight of what the hell else is going on in the world, and, and I catastrophize and everything’s terrible, right?
Just by going out for dinner with another business owner or having that network, right? And then finding out what’s going on in their business, then I can go into solution mode and help them solve their problems. But it also gives me a bit of a reality check of maybe this isn’t so bad, and actually I can get through this.
So I, I find, it comes back to your network, absolutely critical. And don’t be frightened to lean on your network. And even if you don’t wanna be that person that’s like, “Well, come and go for dinner and talk about it, ’cause I’m having a really shit time at the moment,” you don’t even have to tell me you’re having a really shit time at the moment.
It’s just, you know, come, come and go for dinner and catch up, and don’t talk about you, talk about them. It, it’ll all come out, and it’s those little tricks that will keep you in the right place. And you’ve gotta watch for yourself that as you go on, what are you doing about it? ‘Cause I’ve known people who know they’re headed for burnout and just keep going, knowing fine well the cliff’s coming.
Yeah. Whereas I know. I can obviously see it. And where the cliff’s in the distance, I never let me get … I’ll never let myself get close enough. Is that when you normally c- call Kirsty as well? That’s when I call Kirsty as well. Yeah. Yeah. Call Kirsty. Well done. Thank you. Give it up for Nikki, everybody. Great stuff.
Thanks, Nikki. And we have our resident AI expert, the lovely Lidia. Up you come, Lidia. She might have an AI question for you, Sara. Oh. So Lidia’s got some amazing expertise. Just started an AI business. Been working with us for a few months. So there you go. Hi. Thank you for, very much for the, um, sort of confirmation that we are kind of doing all right rather than just beating ourselves over, you know, kind of taking risks.
But, um- Talking about risks, um- Yeah … it’s AI. Um, everybody’s kind of scared either to, um, look at it, implement it, embrace it. There’s always pro- uh, sides for pro, sides for contra. So, um, also it’s a, a question of skills. I know you’ve implemented new technologies in your business. Yeah. How do you think, um, w- you could use that parallel to what is happening today with AI in terms of skills and- Yeah
transformation? So first of all, for anybody who is… them people who you said, “Oh, I don’t know whether I should go or should…” It’s coming. It’s, it’s not even coming. It’s here. Here. Right? It is the world, and it’s not all of a sudden nobody’s gonna wake up and go, “Oh, maybe this AI thing’s not a good idea.
Let’s wind back.” It’s not gonna happen. Yeah. It’s a little bit like when the pandemic happened, and all these people who just buttoned down, batten down the hatches thinking, “I’m gonna wait for the world to go back to normal.” It’s never going back to normal. We’re always just moving forward. So it’s making peace with this is the world, so you’ve got to embrace it, right?
And I just feel like what AI’s gonna do is just level the playing field, right? So in the same way… And I look at me, and what was the big technology transformation that happened in, in my early years at Level the Playing Field? It’s probably social media. You know, when I started the business, I used to advertise in the classified section of all the crafts business magazines and whatnot ’cause that’s how we marketed.
And then actually, social media became big and building communities, and all of a sudden people could do it for free. So the little businesses, me, my little tiny, you know, 100 grand turnover business could compete with the 20 million turnover business in our industry ’cause we’ve all… we can all build the same presence on social media, and it leveled the playing field.
AI is just gonna level the playing field so that as small businesses we’ve got access to the same technology and insights that the big businesses have access to. So actually, the people who should be frightened are the big businesses. Mm. Right. They’ve got everything to lose. We’ve got everything to gain.
And I think it’s about approaching it with that positive mindset of, “Right, well, I’m, I’m embracing it.” You know, maybe, maybe you don’t know it. Maybe you don’t understand it. You, you learn about it. There’s so many courses you can take, learn how to build it in your business, but burying your head in the sand is catastrophically the worst thing that you can do.
And just see it, approach it as a positive. Like I said, it’s leveling the playing field. It’s giving you the opportunity to compete with people much bigger than you and have access to tools that businesses of our sal- scale and size would never have ha- had access to. So positive mindset, guys. The other thing is I hate little businesses who come up and they’re, “Woe is me,” and they’re all, all…
No. We’re, we’re small businesses, but we’re growing, and we’re having a positive mindset. Very passionate Yes. I love it. Yeah. Give it up, give it up, give it up, give it up. Well done, Livia. And I’ve got one last final, uh, question from, this is one of our clients, worked with me for a long time. Um, she is now one of our speakers, so she’s, uh, come on leaps and bounds.
You know, she’s doing amazing things in our group. I think we’ve got some big fans in the audience. Let’s give it up for Anna Moseley.
Sara You look great in green. Thank you. I’ve always- I’m always admiring your orange jacket- … because that’s another color I love. Um, I’m Anna. I’m a high-performance leadership coach, and I am obsessed, as these guys know because I delivered a session before you came on, um, I’m obsessed with the link between mental fitness for high performance.
Yes. And I talk a lot about extraordinary leadership. Now, before you came up, we were brainstorming as a group, um, what are the traits of not just a leader, an extraordinary leader. And I would love to know from you, what would you say are the top three traits of an extraordinary leader? So to me, a leader is just somebody you want to follow, right?
And one of my staff said to me the other day… And I know all my staff follow me. I’m trying to get them to fol- to follow my new MD in the business. And they said something about Diane. They said, “I’d walk over hot coals for her.” And they weren’t talking about whatever they were leading, following her with, but they were prepared to walk over hot coals, and how she’d made them feel.
Mm. That to me, was the extraordinary leadership, and it’s so much easier to try and see it in somebody else as opposed to just in yourself. So it’s, it’s definitely that. And I, I always think it’s, it’s the ability to make people feel, not just to follow you. Well, I genuinely believe that one of my superpowers is how I can make people feel about something, and I use that to my advantage in everyday work with, with clients, when I’m pitching, with other members of staff.
If I can bring them people on the journey, if I can make them feel a certain way. And then, um, I like what you said about the mental fitness. Mm. And I, and I just think I look after myself. Yeah. I’m still overweight. I still got… was the baby pouch from 10 years ago on out, right? Uh, but I look after me body and me mind so I can be the best version of me.
And one thing Kirsty said to me, that was last January when, um, when I was making the decision, should I buy Crafters Companion back, or is it just something I don’t need and it’s gonna be a, well, a hassle? And, um, she said to me, “You’ll get through this with your positive energy, and what I need you to do is avoid the people who are gonna steal your energy.”
The mood Hoovers. The mood Hoovers. Mm-hmm. And she said, “Just, you know who they are in the business, and yes, you will have to deal with them at some points, but you are gonna need to keep the energy because you are the energy that’s gonna plug in the rest of the business and drive it forward. So as soon as you feel yourself getting sucked off onto things that
are tearing your energy- Try switching- Great awful pain from whatever it is that’s, that’s taking my energy. And I’ve learned to do it. And even th- there was a couple of really big things we’ve had to do in the business, which are projects I should’ve been involved in, but I can see that as a project, it’s something that’s just sucking so much of my positive energy, and I was needing the positive energy for other areas of the business.
So I, I like to say, “I’m gonna leave you to deal with that one,” ’cause it’s just taking my positive energy. Energy management then, right? Energy management. Mental fitness and energy management. Thank you so much, Sara. All right. Thank you. You’re an absolute inspiration. Thanks very much.
Oh, thanks, darling. Thank you. Well, look, um, I think, uh, Sara’s more than lived up to our very high expectations. And she’s been absolutely incredible. Oh, thank you. Okay. So, so couple of, uh, couple of quick points, team. We’re gonna do a photo. Couple of very important points is that the photos, when we do them, rather than me sending everyone in the corridor, I know that you love Sara, I know that you wanna have a…
and, and she probably wants to have a chat with you as well, but in the interest of time, is come in, photo, and move forward. Um, when it comes to the photos, we will be doing professional photos for everybody, so don’t take your phone, because they won’t be doing any selfies or any videos or things like that.
It’s photo, move. Photo, move. Photo, move. What- Oh, you’re like a well-oiled machine. Yeah. What, what is it, team? Photo, move. What is it? I can’t hear you. Photo, move. Photo, move. Right. Lovely job. Um, so we are going to… Yeah. Yeah, we got it. Okay. Just a moment, team. After we have done those photos, um, we are g- Yeah, and we’ve moved.
Yeah. We are going to come back into the room, and we are going to come through this door. Um, feel free to use the loo, get a refreshment, but do not miss our wrap-up session. It’s critically important that you’re in the wrap-up session. We’re gonna do a beautiful photo of the, of the whole group for the, uh, first ever, um, Business Icons.
Has it been incredible, team? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and we’ve got some cool stuff that we’re gonna be doing as well, so make sure that when you come back in, you do grab a seat. Can we just destroy Steve’s celebration earlier and make the ground move? Yeah. Okay, like big time. Yeah, let’s keep it up. Keep it up, keep it up, keep it up, keep it up.
Let’s keep it up for Sara Davies!
Hey, everybody, I hope you enjoyed today’s episode of Business Growth Secrets. The next episode I think you’re gonna love. We have world heavyweight champion and national icon, Frank Bruno, on the podcast. I brought him to a room of my clients recently. They absolutely loved him. The vibe when he walked in the room was incredible.
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